(Mailing List Recent Archive)
This web-page allows you to view most posts sent to the jOrgan-User Mailing List from mid-July 2021 onwards, and is read-only. To post a Reply or start a new Topic, you need to be registered with the Mailing List. For instructions on registering and using the Mailing List, click HERE. Your post will normally be sent immediately to all subscribers, but will not appear here until the web-page is updated. This is done manually, and perhaps once a week. Some topics may not appear, if considered not archive material. To contact the Compiler of this web-page, send a post with the Subject Line, “To the jOrgan Link Compiler”.
The main jOrgan-User archive can be accessed HERE, or the jOrgan-Sound archive HERE. If you click on a month, you need to scroll down to see the result. Don’t overlook the Search facility at the left. However, its usefulness is somewhat limited, as it seems to search only the texts of Topics and not the texts of posts. You may need to be registered to use these archives.
THIS WEB-PAGE HAS BEEN TRANSFERRED TO THIS (SIMPLER) ADDRESS:
https://jorgan.info/link.html
jOrgan website for new users Sticky Post
Question re Mailing List by JohnR Most recent post on 2021-09-04 5 replies
Win 7 issues by DennisW Most recent post on 2021-09-03 4 replies
An interim replacement for the Nabble Forum by JohnR Most recent post on 2021-08-08 4 replies
Max Reger Documentary at Fugue State Films in UK by Marc-Paul Most recent post on 2021-07-28
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From JohnR
This website has been created to make it easier for internet users to discover jOrgan and to start using it. Its main pages are HOME, STARTING, ADDING, GALLERY, F.A.Q., THIS SITE and CONTACT.
The web address is https://jorgan.info
JohnR
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From GrahamW on 2021-07-19 18:21
Hi
all,
Tried looking but no luck…
Is it possible to take a
MIDI input from a virtual cable and somehow send it to a sound font
(rank) directly without stops? If so, could someone give me some
pointers please?
The reason: I want to use jOrgan as a box
of ranks with a number of fluidsynth soundfonts, each soundfont an
individual rank. eg. Diapason comes in on channel 1 to a
diapason rank. Flute comes in on Ch2 to flute rank in a second
instance of fluidsynth etc
Obviously I can do this with Qsynth
without jOrgan but it but the advantage of jOrgan is global control
of reverb level etc.
Regards
GrahamW
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From JohnB on 2021-07-20 12:27
GrahamW,
yes,
what you describe is possible. What you need is, probably,
found at the following website http://www.synthfont.com/
Check
it out, first, and if that is not what you are looking for, perhaps,
we need more explanation about what you are trying to do.
If you have a Creative Labs soundcard that loads soundfonts by means of the Soundfont Bank Manager, it is possible to play the soundfonts directly from that application, or it can be used with a MIDI sequencer program, (there are free ones on the net), selecting the program change numbers for individual presets in the soundfont.
JohnB
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From GrahamG on 2021-07-20 16:02
Hi
GrahamW,
Conceptually this could be accomplished with
jOrgan.
You would need a Keyboard element for each MIDI channel,
linked up to a Stop-Rank-FluidsynthSound elements group. With the
Stop set to Activated.
Does that make sense to you?
GrahamG
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From GrahamW on 2021-07-20 16:32
Thanks GrahamG.
That makes sense. I'll try that.
GrahamW
From GrahamW on 2021-07-21 11:44
Hi all
Tried that and it works except for one thing. I have a keyboard set to Ch1, a stop that is always on, the rank and the soundfont. It responds to notes fine.
However, the Tremulant on my console sends a program change (192) with the appropriate patch change on the same channel. Can I get that patch change to happen because it does not at the moment? Do I perhaps need to add a Tremulant element to do the patch change? Can that trem element engage and disengage itself by responding to the PC message?
Cheers
GrahamW
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From GrahamW on 2021-08-01 14:41
Hi All
I've managed to get this working (Yay!)
Just for information....
Each rank has the following elements: keyboard -> stop -> soundfont rank -> soundfont, plus switch filter for patch change (trem) if needed.
The stop is on and set to infinite to enable this setup. The switch filter is set to respond to the patch change command coming from the driving console and implements that patch change. These are grouped into Main, Solo and Tuba/Diapason with Tibia 1, Tibia 2 and Vox as individuals.
Altogether, there are 27 tuned ranks plus traps.
Why not just use Qsynth?
Because I want the sound that 1 fluidsynth instance per rank produces. jOrgan is MUCH better and faster than Qsynth at doing this. It also allows me to control reverb on an overall basis using a setup that Graham Goode uses with chamber reverbs plus overall reverb. Swell control is very easy. Balancing ranks using the jOrgan "Customise" is far superior.
But why do this at all?
Also, though it may be a little heretical to some on a jOrgan list ;),I prefer the interface and functionality of Miditzer. Also, the 260SP specification suits me perfectly. I have everything working now including Pizzicato couplers because Miditzer handles that without jOrgan needing Pizzicato. Along with that, I designed the interface graphics for Miditzer so I have skin in the game. Once Jim Henry releases the upgraded 260SP I will be content. My console is also set up to drive Miditzer.
Just to complete the picture, I run Ubuntu Studio with Fluidsynth 2 pre-installed along with Jack (and Zeta-rev1 if I want it). Miditzer runs just fine in WINE (and is not slowed down since Fluidsynth is turned off). All ranks are sent using VirMIDI which is a kernel module virtual sound card with 4 virtual hardware MIDI cables. jOrgan and JACK just see them as hardware inputs and outputs. So does WINE/Miditzer.
QJackCtl is set to start automatically and runs a script after it has started to open jOrgan then Miditzer. The patchbay auto-connects everything so I boot up and the whole organ starts. Similarly, one push on the power button and the system shuts down. All this runs on a 2014 Mac Mini into a Marantz multichannel amp that has a DSP setting to virtualise a stereo signal to 5.1 surround.
Now I just need to start playing again to get the rust out of the joints. My wife has threatened to invite a bunch of friends over for a Theatre Organ concert. Currently, we are under strict COVID lockdown and will be for several months - time to practice!
BTW my Accomp manual is actually a weighted key 88 note piano so my piano rank is a Steinway and is velocity sensitive. Great and Solo are standard 61 note and pedalboard is full 32 note AGO spec.
Cheers
GrahamW
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From DennisW on 2021-08-02 03:11
Hi Graham,
Thanks for the information. I had thought that Miditzer had stopped 260 development years ago. Glad to hear it's being upgraded. I am presently unable to run 64 bit programs on my organ computer (XP Home edition). I am stuck unless I am willing to replace the touch monitors and the midi interface to a more modern operating system and I really don't want to spend the money to do so. The old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here.
I have always liked the 260 Miditzer for playing a theatre organ. I have made a couple of Jorgan attempts that didn't turn out to my liking and haven't spent the time needed to build one I am happy with. I have instead a very nice classical organ with over 300 ranks on 7 divisions (3 floating). It uses fluidsynth and soundfonts for over half the ranks and a Roland Integra7 sound module for the rest. I also use a smaller organ comprised of about 115 ranks from mostly the Integra7 (including about 10 or so soundfont ranks) with 4 divisions to play mostly jazz and modern pieces. These feed an AGO spec three manual organ I built several years ago.
Good luck with your project and again, thanks for the information. It looks like a great organ build!
Regards,
DennisW
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From RickW on 2021-08-02 08:44
Hi Graham,
Interesting to hear of your project. Sounds like a great set-up.
Looking forward to hearing some tunes from you. I loved your early Miditzer tracks.
Regards,
Rick
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From GrahamW on 2021-08-03 15:07
Hi Dennis
On 2 Aug 2021, at 3:11 am, Dennis wrote:
Hi Graham,
Thanks for the information. I had thought that Miditzer had stopped 260 development years ago. Glad to hear it's being upgraded.
Restarted recently and the upgrade is to 64bit.
I am presently unable to run 64 bit programs on my organ computer (XP Home edition). I am stuck unless I am willing to replace the touch monitors and the midi interface to a more modern operating system and I really don't want to spend the money to do so. The old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here.
Absolutely!
I have always liked the 260 Miditzer for playing a theatre organ. I have made a couple of Jorgan attempts that didn't turn out to my liking and haven't spent the time needed to build one I am happy with. I have instead a very nice classical organ with over 300 ranks on 7 divisions (3 floating). It uses fluidsynth and soundfonts for over half the ranks and a Roland Integra7 sound module for the rest. I also use a smaller organ comprised of about 115 ranks from mostly the Integra7 (including about 10 or so soundfont ranks) with 4 divisions to play mostly jazz and modern pieces. These feed an AGO spec three manual organ I built several years ago.
That sounds like a great setup.
Good luck with your project and again, thanks for the information. It looks like a great organ build!
BTW forgot to mention that the centre channel is a full (Bass & Treble) set of Conn Organ Pipes, L and R are Jamo towers (this doubles as my HiFi system for classical music). Rear speakers are 6inch two ways that I built myself and there's a 12inch 150W sub to round things off.
Unlike you Dennis, I just want one instrument that matches my console. As my Dad used to say :"Good as a bought one!"
Cheers
GrahamW
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From GrahamW on 2021-08-03 15:11
Hi Rick
On 2 Aug 2021, at 8:44 am, [email protected] wrote:
Hi Graham
Interesting to hear of your project. Sounds like a great set-up.
I'm very happy with it.
Looking forward to hearing some tunes from you. I loved your early Miditzer tracks.
They were fun. I've just been able to come back to the organ after retirement. Teaching got so demanding, I had to let the organ go.
Cheers
Graham
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From GrahamW on 2021-08-03 15:49
Forgot this for anyone interested. Initial draft screenshot of proposed new Miditzer260SP.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TAMZ1nvPojiQPb8dWaQ7IaF1ik_aOjJS/view?usp=sharing
Cheers
GrahamW
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From GrahamG on 2021-08-03 15:52
Oh that does look awesome :)
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From DennisW on 2021-08-03 15:53
Wow, very impressive!
Regards,
Dennis
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From RickW on 2021-08-03 18:30
That is quite a console!
Regards
Rick
From GrahamW on 2021-08-29 17:00
Hi Rick
I had sort of forgotten those early tracks. I've put them on soundcloud just for "historical purposes".
www.soundcloud.com/graham-wykes
Cheers
GrahamW
greenfox wrote:
Hi Graham
Interesting to hear of your project. Sounds like a great set-up.
Looking forward to hearing some tunes from you. I loved your early Miditzer tracks.
Regards
Rick.
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From PeteT on 2021-08-29 23:49
My understanding is that jOrgan is a relay - for virtual organ or pipe organ. Where do the ranks come from?
I have never been able to get anything to work past the first note, in YEARS of trying.
What is playing now sounds like Miditzer . . .
I could never get Miditzer to work either.
I haven't tried Raspberry pi, yet . . .
Graham Wykes wrote:
Hi Rick
I had sort of forgotten those early tracks. I've put them on soundcloud just for "historical purposes".
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From greenfox on 2021-08-30 10:40
Hi Pete
My suggestions would be:
Miditzer is the easiest place to start. It is a self contained installer and doesn't rely on any extra software prerequisites (on a Windows computer). Once downloaded you should be able to immediately select a stop or default combination and play (and hear) a note just clicking your mouse on the graphical keyboard.
If you have any troubles email me direct and we can work through any issues.
jOrgan is a MIDI Relay, but the install package also installs Fluidsynth (and some basic Fluidsynth SF2 sound files) so it does become a functioning package. Users can choose to not use Fluidsynth if they have and know how to setup an alternative sound engine.
jOrgan needs Java and Java must match the "bitts" (32 or 64) of the version of jOrgan you are installing. If you have both 64 and 32 bit Java, then the most recently installed version of Java must match the version of jOrgan you are trying to run (because there is something in the install process of Java that sets which version of Java is active by default). Having both versions of Java (and jOrgan for that matter) causes all kinds of complications and is not for the faint hearted (or less than supernurds). In an ideal world, the jOrgan installer should look for the Java prerequisite and install it or update it as needed.
Further to this, the Windows jOrgan installer installs jOrgan (by default) in the "Program Files" area of Windows. This was OK for XP, but ever since Windows has had security measures to block writing to files in this area. Users really need to move any working files to "Documents" or at least somewhere Windows will allow files to be written. If users don't know which files to move, it is best to move the entire jOrgan package to a working area in Windows. This should have been modified in the installer at least 10 years ago, but is still there as a trap for new players all these years later. (the joys of working with free open source software)
jOrgan on Raspberry Pi (or any Linux operating system) is again complex and only recommended for supernurds. The audio environment in Linux is a steep learning curve for anyone not at least a little experienced in Linux and wanting a challenge on their hands.
Regards
Rick
PeteT wrote:
My understanding is that jOrgan is a relay - for virtual organ or pipe
organ. Where do the ranks come from?
I have never been able to get anything to work past the first note, in
YEARS of trying.
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From PeteT on 2021-08-30 18:33
Hmm. I have not used windows in 20 years, only Linux. Maybe I could do it in Windows, but I have no windows computer so . . .
From GrahamW on 2021-08-30 19:40
Hi Pete
Since you are familiar with Linux...
Make sure you have JACK Audio Connection Kit installed along with QjackCtl
Install Java (OpenJDK). I think you need at least version 11 but perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
Install jOrgan
Download a disposition - I would suggest you start with the Barton or the Freedom Morton models at https://sites.google.com/site/savirtualorgans/jorgan-dispositions
You start QjaclCtl first, then jOrgan. Once that is up, you open the distribution you want to use.
An alternative is the jOrgan Pup LiveCD at https://sites.google.com/site/savirtualorgans/jorgan-pup . This has Rick's Christie disposition on it as well as a great bunch of classical organs.
Apart from this, I second everything Rick has said.
(I have my own reasons for combining Miditzer and jOrgan and FYI, I use Ubuntu Studio)
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From RoyR on 2021-08-30 20:40
Hi, Pete,
You say you never get past the first note. Does the first note play forever? If so, check that your keyboard element recognises both Note Off and Note ON, Zero Volume as note off, it's an ancient trap that many fell into.
Have fun,
Roy. (UK)
PeteT wrote:
My understanding is that jOrgan is a relay - for virtual organ or pipe
organ. Where do the ranks come from?
I have never been able to get anything to work past the first note, in
YEARS of trying.
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From PeteT on 2021-08-30 23:23
Interesting question. Actually, the first note kinda crashes the computer and then I have to restart it.
RoyR wrote:
Hi, Pete,
You say you never get past the first note. Does the first note play forever?
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From RoyR on 2021-08-31 01:13
Hmmm... That sounds kinda final! *:)) laughing
I'm not much help in general since most problems seem to revolve around Fluidsynth and I used external hardware synths. Not doing much at all these days as the old Anno Domini moves on, 82 not out at the last count!
Have fun,
Roy. (UK)
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From Marc-Paul on 2021-07-28 10:08
Greetings
Fugue State Films has just released a 6 hour documentary on Max Reger in 3 parts. The first part is being offered to view for no charge until middle of July. There is a lot of discussion about his Organ work.
Google search Fugue State films and you can get the information.
I own the documentary they shot on “The Genius of Cavaillé-Coll” and there are lots of other interesting films.
Regards
Marc-Paul
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An interim replacement for the Nabble Forum
From JohnR on 2021-08-04 11:16
Hi all,
It is regrettable that jOrgan no longer has public accessibility to our discussions. I have put together an interim replacement, until such time as we have a proper forum linked to the Mailing List.
It has some rough edges, and I have to strike a compromise between no quirks and the time it would take to eliminate them.
The link is https://jorgan.info/base/l/Link1.html
Best wishes,
JohnR
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From PeteT on 2021-08-04 12:45
Cool. Reply list to see if it works :-)
Regards,
Pete
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From PeteT on 2021-08-04 14:21
Seems OK. Good.
Regards,
Pete
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From DaveT on 2021-08-07 23:50
JohnR,
Thanks for all your work. This should work as a reply.
Wow, that's some Miditzer260.
Dave
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From JohnR on 2021-08-08 11:41
DaveT wrote: John R, Thanks for all your work.
Dave,
It was your email to me a few weeks ago that prompted the creation of this interim solution. We hope that it's not long before a forum, linked to the Mailing List in much the same way as Nabble was, can take over.
Best wishes,
JohnR
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From DennisW on 2021-08-28 10:19
Greetings,
I am trying to upgrade to win 7 pro 64 bit from win xp 32 bit. I downloaded the 64 bit version of jOrgan 3.21.1 but cannot get fluidsynth recognized by jOrgan - I get the “fluidsynth failure” error message. I tried jOrgan 4.0 and was able to get sound out, but the quality is not as good as I have under win xp. I have fooled around with number and size of buffers and can hear no discernable difference between 8/256 and 2/2048 and most everything in between - latency isn’t an issue. The volume settings in the customizer are at .5 or less. The sound card seems to be operating satisfactorily as I can play music using windows media player and it sounds great. I have both 32 and 64 bit java programs - latest versions installed.
Any ideas as to where to look next would be appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Dennis
From JohnR on 2021-08-28 16:08
Dennis wrote, 'I downloaded the 64 bit version of jOrgan 3.21.1 but cannot get fluidsynth recognized by jOrgan - I get the “fluidsynth failure” error message.'
Dennis,
The usual view is that it is O.K. to have Java 32-bit and Java 64-bit installed at the same time, but having more than one version of jOrgan installed at the same time should be avoided. Are you observing this rule?
I should add for the sake of other readers that Dennis and I have been discussing his problems by email for a couple of days. He did have a problem with distortion using jOrgan 4, but this was solved when I suggested dropping the gain and increasing the buffer settings. However, he says that the quality of the sound with his Windows 7 computer is not up to the standard of that achieved with his XP, and this is something we need the List members to give an opinion on. (I have no problem myself with the quality of sound from later versions of Windows subsequent to XP.)
Our emails prompted me to try jOrgan 3.21.1 on my Windows 8.1 laptop, and I got it to work well, both with and without the use of the 64-bit "ALL" backend. (This was not entirely my experience yesterday, when the backend portaudio did not seem to work, but it certainly worked for me today - although not with a disposition having 3 instances of Fluidsynth, where getting portaudio to work on one instance of Fluidsynth had the effect of silencing the other two instances altogether, even when they were still set to dsound.)
Best wishes,
JohnR
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From DennisW on 2021-08-29 01:18
When I originally tried jOrgan 3.21.1 it was the only instance on the computer and it didn't recognize fluidsynth. I then installed jOrgan 4 and was able to get 4 (with John's help) to recognize fluidsynth even though I did not uninstall 3.21.1 However, as stated before the sound quality is not up to that achieved with win xp.
Should I just forget about win 7 64 bit and go to win 10 64 bit?
Regards,
Dennis
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From JohnR on Sep 2, 2021-09-02 13:47
DennisW wrote: "The sound quality is not up to that achieved with win xp. Should I just forget about win 7 64 bit and go to win 10 64 bit?"
Dennis,
If you are getting excellent sound with your Win 7 computer using the music player, I think you are unlikely to have an improvement by installing Win 10 instead. The only suggestions I can make is that you observe the "only one version of jOrgan installed at the one time" rule, and that you reduce the Fluidsynth gain a little more. Also, I would make sure that the number of buffers used is not fewer than 8. So 8/512 or 8/256 should give you very good results. (The speed of your CPU suggests to me that you should be able to use 8/256 without any problems.)
Best wishes,
JohnR
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From DennisW on 2021-09-03 10:21
Thanks John,
I’ll give it a try.
Regards,
Dennis
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From JohnR on 2021-09-03 09:52
Hi all,
I have not yet become comfortable with using the Mailing List, as for years my preferred method was to read and send posts using the Nabble Forum. This morning I sent what I thought was a reply to the List, but it seems it went only to Dennis, who had sent the post to which I was replying.
I had clicked on Reply rather than on Reply All, as I was advised recently that this was the correct thing to do.
My question to seasoned users of the Mailing List is, in replying to a post, do you click on Reply, or on Reply All?
Best wishes,
JohnR
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From PeteT on 2021-09-03 10:57
Reply goes to the sender, Reply List goes to the list. Reply All goes to both the sender and the list.
Not all email clients support all three options. Or not on the same menu.
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From MarcA on 2021-09-03 13:49
In Outlook 2016 I type Reply List in the "what do you want to do" and Send.
Cheers
Marc-Paul
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From RoyR on 2021-09-03 18:03
Hi, John,
I don't do it often enough to remember these days, this was sent by just clicking the reply arrow icon.
Have fun,
Roy. (UK)
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From RickW on 2021-09-03 20:44
I use Gmail, and have my default send option set to Reply All.
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MOST RECENT POST
From JohnR on 2021-09-04 12:22
Thank you to Pete, Marc-Paul, Roy and Rick for your help. "Reply All" or "Reply List" get the most votes, but note Roy's practice of using "Reply", which shows that things are not quite clear-cut.
I did a little investigating, and I concluded that "Reply" sends to the whole list, but only if the SourceForge web address is used. The reason my email went only to Dennis, was that it was his address that had turned up in the address window, and I didn't notice this.
So the safest thing is simply to use "Reply All" etc.
Best wishes,
JohnR
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