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PAST ARCHIVES (Click to access)

2023 Jul-Dec______2023 Jan-Jun______2022 Jul-Dec______2022 Jan-Jun _____2021 Jul-Dec







jOrgan website for new users___Sticky Post

jOrgan Disposition Display Program___By Lynn Walls _Newest post on 2024-05-23___14 replies

jOrgan MPL Tutorial___By Lynn Walls___Most recent post on 2024-05-16___4 replies

Swell shoe___By Freeman Gilmore__ Most recent post on 2024-05-15___1 reply

Swell___By Freeman Gilmore__ Most recent post on 2024-05-08___17 replies

expression pedal/ Re: Using an external pedal___By Pascal Collet__ Most recent post on 2024-04-26___8 replies

Keyboard detection___By Evrim Galliano__ Most recent post on 2024-04-26___99 replies

Implementing a sustain pedal___By Brian Sweetnam__ Most recent post on 2024-04-12___13 replies

Updates to jOrgan Discovery Website___By JohnR__ on 2024-04-10

Midi kit supplier in Ireland___By Bob Brown__ Most recent post on 2024-03-25___7 replies

Bruce Miles' Cinema Organ___By Brian Sweetnam__ Most recent post on 2024-03-22___2 replies

Mailing List Issues___By JohnR__ Most recent post on 2024-03-20___1 reply

Reiterate Question___By Brian Sweetnam__ Most recent post on 2024-03-18___1 reply

Hammond B3___By Bill Skees___Most recent post on 2024-03-15___2 replies

Problem with jOrgan 4.2 for RPi 4B (64-bit)___By JohnR___Most recent post on 2024-03-14___4 replies

jOrgan 4.2 on RPi 5 running Bookworm___By Marc-Paul on 2024-03-12

j3.20 Stiehr-Mockers 2.0 not importing to version 4x jOrgan

___By Marc-Paul___Most recent post on 2024-03-10___4 replies

Fluidsynth 2.3.4 PortAudio ALL build for Windows jOrgan 4.0 64-bit users

___By Graham Goode___Most recent post on 2024-03-06___1 reply

Quick Raspberry Pi question___By John Kuhns___Most recent post on 2024-03-05___25 replies

jOrgan and a DAW, the next level...___By Alex Stone___Most recent post on 2024-02-14

jOrgan and a DAW___By Alex Stone___Most recent post on 2024-02-14___33 replies

Dual Touch Screen Monitors___By Bill Skees___Most recent post on 2024-02-05___16 replies

Fluidsynth 2.3.4___By Dr. Mark Bugeja MD___Newest post on 2024-01-28___2 replies

Fluidsynth Reverb Parameters___By Pascal Collet___Most recent post on 2024-01-26___2 replies

Crescendo Volume___By Jolly Zekkariya___Most recent post on 2024-01-16___5 replies

Setting up jOrgan in Ubuntu Studio___By Dave Mac___Most recent post on 2024-01-12___23 replies

text on stops___By Dr. Mark Bugeja MD___on 2024-01-11

Pedal Volume___By Jolly Zekkariya___Most recent post on 2024-01-10___4 replies

About version 4.x for windows___By Pascal Collet___Most recent post on 2024-01-09___9 replies

jOrgan 4.1___By Mark Bugeja___Most recent post on 2024-01-05___3 replies

Advice on jOrgan Skins needed___By JohnR___Most recent post on 2024-01-05___3 replies

_





























































jOrgan website for new users



From JohnR

This website has been created to make it easier for internet users to discover jOrgan and to start

using it. Its main pages are HOME, STARTING, ADDING, GALLERY, F.A.Q., THIS SITE and CONTACT.

The web address is https://jorgan.info

JohnR

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Setting up jOrgan in Ubuntu Studio



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-03 20:28



evening all,



I have reloaded an earlier laptop of mine with Linux Ubuntu Studio and opened up

jOrgan that has come with it.



So far I can't get jOrgan audio out. jOrgan itself seems to work.



jOrgan Fluidsynth controls in "build" section doesn't bring up Jack in its list of

audio inputs.

Equally when I go into the "Audio- System settings" in Ubuntu Studio there is no

"Playback Stream" for jOrgan. There is a Playback Stream for Firefox when I brought

up YouTube.



I found Fluidsynth in the list of apps in Studio but it looks like it has to be set

up to run with jOrgan and "see" Jack.



I tried to work out if jOrgan and the Fluidsynth that came with Ubuntu Studio were

32 bit or 64 bit but no luck



Has anyone had any experience with this? I would REALLY appreciate some help



thanks

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-01-04 15:30



On 2024-01-03 20:28, Dave Mac wrote:

I have reloaded an earlier laptop of mine with Linux Ubuntu Studio and

opened up jOrgan that has come with it.



So far I can't get jOrgan audio out.”



Hi Dave,

Welcome to the jOrgan Mailing List!

I think we need more information. Please copy the error log which jOrgan generates,

and paste it into your next post.

Follow the "Error Log" entry in the jOrgan InfoBase Index:

https://jorgan.info/base/e/Error_Log.html



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-05 11:35



Hello Dave:

I have been using Ubuntu Studio for about a year in a testing environment with

jOrgan 4.1. Audio output tests include up to 4 stereo pairs on a usb sound card...

and just the audio in a laptop. I also have RPi, Mac and Windows. Make sure Alsa

is selected as audio driver. For testing push the gain up to 1.



I have written instructions about multi channel audio previously which will be in

the forum.



Let us know what definition you are loading.



Kindest Regards

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-01-05 11:42



On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 at 01:36, Marc-Paul wrote:

"I have written instructions about multi channel audio previously which will be

in the forum."



Shouldn't these be part of jOrgan.info?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-05 13:09



On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 at 10:36, Marc wrote: "Let us know what definition you are loading."



Marc,



Definition? or Dispositon?



The jOrgan Disposition I am using is Rick Whatson's Christie.



thanks muchly



Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-05 13:13



Mark,

I wasn't aware of the jorgan log earlier. I have now printed out the relevant

instructions and am working hard to familiarise myself.



I'm new to Linux in general and Ubuntu Studio in particular so its a very steep

learning curve for me.



regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-05 15:56



Thanks Dave...

...I will load the Christie Organ tomorrow and see what is necessary

to make it work in Ubuntu Studio.

Cheers

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-05 18:20



Marc-Paul



very kind offer and greatly appreciated.



All who are following this here is an update.



As I started getting my head around it all I realised that same as jOrgan is packaged

in Ub Stud so is Fluidsynth. and I suddenly realised today it had to be set up along

with jOrgan. I managed to track down the Soundfont file (still haven't found the

app.log file) and now I have the virtual keyboard in jOrgan appearing in the computer

audio output. Big development which was easily reached once I realised the issue.



HOWEVER jOrgan seems to be seeing the keyboards and pedal MIDI from the Teensy

microprocessor but there is no audio output from them.



It seems there is no Linux version of MIDI Ox so now scratching my head wondering

how to make sure there is input from those keyboards (standard USB music keyboards

into USB hub which have worked fine in Windows days).



regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-05 20:09



evening all,



further update clarifying an earlier statement



It seems from further checking in jorgan "build" that although the keyboards

are appearing in the dropdown configuration menu- they aren't talking to jorgan.



hunting like mad to work out how Ub Stud deals with MIDI



regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-06 07:14



Hello Dave:

On a clean install of Ubuntu Studio I downloaded jOrgan 4.1. I had to install

my network midi application as that's the way I distribute midi data. I downloaded

the Christie organ and placed it in "Public" as is my habit. I opened the Christie

organ and changed the driver to Alsa and selected my midi input. I pushed the

Volume up to 1. I previously set the default audio in Ubuntu to the internal audio

and tested for sound. I played the onscreen keyboard and got sound. I played the

midi keyboard and got sound.



A great help are the two little indicators in the lower right corner of jOrgan.

Midi in and Midi out. They flash at the presence of midi data key down and key up.



On "View" you can use "Debug" and copy to clipboard.



The computer I tested this on is an Intel i5 mac mini using built in audio.



So I guess I didn't help you any.



Best Wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-06 17:12



Gday Marc-Paul,



Apologies for the deafening silence- I got caught up in my Saturday morning routine.



I really appreciate your effort. and it is of considerable value to me ... even if I'm

a dyed-in-the-wool Windows man (😂😂😂)



I've printed your email out and dot pointed your stages below and I'm about to investigate

those avenues.



thanks so much and I'll keep you posted



warm regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-07 08:07



Hi Dave...

...I am a certified tech and support Windows and Mac. I also operate Ubuntu

Studio and Rpi. All 4 on a daily basis. Please ask any questions you wish

as I am happy to help.



Depending on where you unpack the Christie organ... you may have to also reset the path to

the soundfont... the very bottom entry on fluidsynth in construct mode.



Best wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-07 11:36



Good morning Marc-Paul



Thank you so much and I'm pretty sure I will be coming back later today for more help.

It is really appreciated. I'm slowly finding my way though it all.



warm regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-07 13:36



Good afternoon Marc-Paul.



well I'm back even sooner than I expected. I thought I was making headway but I realise

now that was illusory.



When I first brought Carla up to find my MIDI they were in the bottom left window, I

brought them up into the patch bay but I must admit I couldn't find what to connect them to.



however then I inadvertently closed Carla without saving that config; and now I have not

been able to bring those MIDI connections back.



I can play YouTube through the laptop speakers and also out through the USB



the virtual keyboard in jOrgan plays OK out to speakers



weirdly if I have the Qsynth window open I get a rather high pitched almost strangled

audio output which is playable on the USB keyboards which is definitely not from jOrgan,

when I close the Qsynth window it vanishes. And it plays in "touch sensitive " mode which

has never happened before.



search me



warm regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-07 15:55



Hi Dave...

...so that's great. jOrgan plays with the virtual keyboard thru

speakers... so you have sound.



I use Qsynth a lot. Remember that Qsynth accepts midi data and plays the soundfont

loaded in it. I have written extensive instructions in the forum for using jOrgan to

output MIDI data with a generic sound element and using Qsynth to host the soundfont

instead of fluidsynth. This means using jOrgan as a midi relay only. Qsynth setup

is a bit complicated. A block diagram would look like midi out from jOrgan to Qsynth

then audio to Jack via a2jmidid.



Using fluidsynth in jOrgan is quit a bit simpler. I use Qsynth for multi-channel output.



jOrgan should see your midi keyboard. Try plugging one keyboard into your computer

directly and see if jOrgan recognizes it. I could be the hub that's getting in the way...

just a test.



USB ports can appear and disappear... (depends on the hardware) sometimes simply

plugging the usb cable into a different port will bring it to its senses.



Best Wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-07 17:08



Gday Marc-Paul



thanks for that. I've reverted back to fluidsynth and loaded it with the soundfile.



currently I have YT giving me audio and jOrgan is still playing on the virtual keyboard



jOrgan is seeing the keyboards (I didn't try a keyboard direct yet but I easily can if

necessary)



however when I attempt to patch the MIDI in Carla patchbay I find the engine isn't

running- when I attempt to start the engine I receive this



"Could not connect to Audio backend 'ALSA', possible reasons:



Current audio setup has no outputs, cannot continue"



I've obviously inadvertently changed something because originally I did find the MIDI

in the Carla patch bay.



regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-08 00:16 +16



Evening Marc-Paul,



well I'm nearly there. Found a setting in Carla which wasn't right (will need to

locate it again in morn) and I can now see all three keyboards and pedal Teensy in

Carla patch bay but quirkily enough only two of the keyboards are working!!!



will check for MIDI presence in jOrgan in morning



regards and thanks

DaveV__________MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-10 18:40



Evening all,



I'm still struggling with getting jOgan working in Ubuntu Studio. The other night

I reached the point where suddenly I realised I had the first and third USB controller

keyboards working correctly through the internal speakers, but not the second keyboard

or the pedals using the Teensy microprocessor to provide MIDI pedals.



the virtual on-screen keyboards and pedals all work.



I can see MIDI coming into jOrgan on that first and third keyboard but not the second

and pedals.



I did no patching in Carla to achieve this connection it just happened.



I've been wondering if I need to patch MIDI in Carla-I can see all three keyboards and

Teensy pedals appearing as ports but no idea what to patch them to.



when I swing the virtual organ across to my WIndows personal laptop all three keyboards

work fine without changing anything, as do the pedals except that after a few seconds the

pedals crash jOrgan- presumably my personal laptop does not have the computing reserves

to handle it.



thanks

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-01-11 01:05



Try disconnecting the one and three keyboards to see if the system recognizes the second

and pedals. Make sure that, in jOrgan, your channel numbers for the USB keyboards are

set to default (probably #1), but it should identify each keyboard by type. If they are

all the same type (manufacturer), it, still, recognizes each according to the jOrgan

division. The channel numbers for division (keyboards) in jOrgan will be 1,2,3,4,

But the MIDI channel numbers for those keyboards must be the manufacturer's default.

Otherwise, they will not work.

Hope this helps.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-01-11 07:08



Hi Dave,



I'm not sure what your problem is. But see if this jOrgan InfoBase page helps:

https://jorgan.info/base/e/Enumerate.html



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-11 11:57



Hi Dave



As John has mentioned, "Enumerate devices" might have something to do with getting the

last aspects functioning for your setup in jOrgan.



Go to: View - Configuration (this will bring up the "Preferences" window)

Select "Midi"

Tick both "Cache devices" and "Enumerate devices"

Close jOrgan and reboot your operating system.



On a fresh start, look in File - Customize...

Check the "Device" dropdown list for each division of the organ.

Experiment with with which #number device correctly relates to the physical position

of your keyboards.



Just to recap for anyone following along.

This "Enumerate devices" function (not activated by default) makes jOrgan allocate a

#number (eg. #1, #2...) to each MIDI device jOrgan sees as active in the operating system.

Multiple generic MIDI devices all have the same name in the operating system. Without

activating this function, jOrgan only shows 1 device of identical named duplicate devices.

By adding a #number to each name, each device gets a unique name.



I hope this now gets everything working for you.

You have done a great job to get a failing Windows laptop to install Ubuntu Studio as its

operating system and get jOrgan working in a completely new environment, in such a short

timeframe.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dave Mac on 2024-01-12 09:57



Morning all

Wasn't it Charlie Brown from Peanuts who said "Into every life a little rain must fall

but this is ridiculous??"



After taking note of and working over everyone's latest suggestions without success I

finally decided late yesterday to do a total reinstall of Ubuntu Studio which wasn't

overly difficult. Except that where I'm positive jOrgan had been part of that package

first time I couldn't find it second time (and no I hadn't been drinking!). So a

download of jOrgan 64 bit soon sorted that.



In quite a short time I had jOrgan WORKING on Ubuntu Studio this morn and I really

appreciated all the suggestions of the last few days because they enabled me to work

straight through in an informed manner this time. Last time I started out with no idea

at all. And also thanks Rick for your kind words- your unflagging support and

encouragement over many years has brought me to this point.



HOWEVER as I sat down to triumphantly enjoy my success- the moment my feet touched the

pedals jOrgan fell over as before. The skin stays up- but it is dead. The sin of

assumption has hit me again. I had assumed my Windows personal computer was the issue

but it seems the fault is in jOrgan or peripherals.



The fault appeared out of nowhere... it all worked bearably well on my personal Windows

laptop (in lieu of organ laptop which had failed)- I hadn't played with any settings-

I went away for a few days and when I returned to the organ jOrgan would fail every

time I started playing the pedals.



I'm still enormously grateful the organ laptop is functional again because it makes

life much simpler. But I need to sort the pedal issue.



Any ideas?



many thanks and warm regards

Dave

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-12 10:38



I thought I had sorted the latest fluidsynth 2.3.4 to work with jOrgan 4.01. Apparently

I was wrong. I get nothing but fluidsynth failure no matter what I did with it, jOrgan

and java. I guess I have to abandon this update of FS until someone (usually it is

Graham Goode) adapts it as a backend update. I did put my request to him in a private

message. I hope he can spare a few minutes for the community which I trust he would.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-12 11:36



Hi Dave...

...personally, I would troubleshoot it like any issue. Find the possible

midi problem by unplugging the other keyboards and use only the pedal midi

interface and see if jOrgan still crashes. It could be the midi interface

and not jOrgan as an example. I have found that Ubuntu Studio is not as

good at handling faults as Windows.



Congratulations on all your work.



Something that was not mentioned if you use enumerate is that you have to redo your

midi connections in jOrgan. The same goes if you were using enumerate and then turn

it off.



Best Wishes.

Marc-Paul ____MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

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Advice on jOrgan Skins needed



From JohnR on 2024-01-03 21:45



Hi all,

John Maher and I have been working hard creating the jOrgan soundfont for Mark Bugeja’s

latest VPO – a modern German pipe organ installed in a church in Malta. We have nearly

finished the soundfont.

I am finding the sound very pleasing, and look forward to having it on my home console.

Neither of us is very experienced with jOrgan Skins. I have started with the Classic

skin and begun to add things as necessary. Mark supplied graphics, but we have to get

them into the jOrgan framework.

I have started with the Stop image, and have uploaded to Dropbox a folder with a small

disposition file and the skin needed for it. Here is the link to download the folder:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/k4kcdhbmzz6bbekxc1ofx/h?rlkey=p4xg03d8vbkmw6ixx1e412jj1&dl=0



If you place the disposition file and the skin folder into the one location on your

computer, and double-click on the disposition file, you will be able to see and operate

the stop (if you have a working version of jOrgan installed). There is no audio associated

with this. Below are lines in the XML Skin file related to the Stop switch. “stop0”

indicates Stop off. "Blank off.png" is the image for Stop off. I have added the numbering

to make it easier to refer to the lines in question.



My particular concerns are these:

1. I have tried increasing the size of the text by changing the “12” in lines 34 and 92,

but doing this has made no difference. How can the text size be increased? Also, how

would one discover what other fonts are available? (I have just noticed that the version

of the Classic Skin I have used does not include a font file. Could this be the reason

I can't change the size?)

2. How can I give the text lines just a little more width, if needed?

3. How can I place the text higher up on the image of Stop Off?

4. How can I place the text lower down on the image of Stop On, so that the text appears

to move down the same amount as the stop does?



A short explanation from someone of the main terms being used in the XML file would be useful

for any folk who wish to make up their own Skins. This could lead to a tutorial being created

for the jOrgan InfoBase (e.g. button, border, anchor, padding, font style).



<style>

<name>stop</name>

<layers>

<button>

5 <binding>active</binding>

<layers>

<composite>

<layers>

<image>

10 <file>Blank off.png</file>

<border>

<top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

15 <right>0</right>

</border>

<anchor>CENTER</anchor>

<fill>NONE</fill>

<width>0</width>

20 <height>0</height>

<padding>

<top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

25 <right>0</right>

</padding>

</image>

<text>

<alignment>CENTER</alignment>

30 <binding>name</binding>

<font>

<name>Arial</name>

<style>1</style>

<size>12</size>

35 </font>

<color>

<red>0</red>

<green>0</green>

<blue>0</blue>

40 </color>

<antialiased>true</antialiased>

<anchor>CENTER</anchor>

<fill>NONE</fill>

<width>75</width>

45 <height>75</height>

<padding>

<top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

50 <right>0</right>

</padding>

</text>

</layers>

<anchor>CENTER</anchor>

55 <fill>NONE</fill>

<width>0</width>

<height>0</height>

<padding>

<top>0</top>

60 <left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

<right>0</right>

</padding>

</composite>

65 <composite>

<layers>

<image>

<file>Blank on.png</file>

<border>

70 <top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

<right>0</right>

</border>

75 <anchor>CENTER</anchor>

<fill>NONE</fill>

<width>0</width>

<height>0</height>

<padding>

80 <top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

<right>0</right>

</padding>

85 </image>

<text>

<alignment>CENTER</alignment>

<binding>name</binding>

<font>

90 <name>Arial</name>

<style>1</style>

<size>12</size>

</font>

<color>

95 <red>80</red>

<green>20</green>

<blue>20</blue>

</color>

<antialiased>true</antialiased>

100 <anchor>CENTER</anchor>

<fill>NONE</fill>

<width>75</width>

<height>75</height>

<padding>

105 <top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

<right>0</right>

</padding>

110 </text>

</layers>

<anchor>CENTER</anchor>

<fill>NONE</fill>

<width>0</width>

115 <height>0</height>

<padding>

<top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

120 <right>0</right>

</padding>

</composite>

</layers>

<anchor>CENTER</anchor>

125 <fill>BOTH</fill>

<width>0</width>

<height>0</height>

<padding>

<top>8</top>

130 <left>8</left>

<bottom>8</bottom>

<right>8</right>

</padding>

</button>

135 </layers>

<anchor>CENTER</anchor>

<fill>NONE</fill>

<width>0</width>

<height>0</height>

140 <padding>

<top>0</top>

<left>0</left>

<bottom>0</bottom>

<right>0</right>

145 </padding>

</style>



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-01-05 06:46



Hi all,

I have good news. I tried using Mark’s stop images on a skin other than the Classic,

and it obviously works, at least in a fashion, so I am now well on the way to

solving the issue for this VPO. Once I have nailed down the actual parameter values,

I shall pass the solution on to Mark:

a working stop image, with text that can be controlled as to position and as to font

size and type. Mark has generously offered to take over the work of creating the skin.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-05 07:14



JohnR and Mark:

I would simply like to offer my gratitude for your work... from which so many people

will benefit. I have never created a skin.



Kindest Regards

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-05 08:28



On 04/01/2024 21:14, Marc-Paul via jOrgan-user wrote:

JohnR and Mark:

I would simply like to offer my gratitude for your work... from which so many

people will benefit. I have never created a skin.



Kindest Regards

Marc-Paul”



Hi Marc-Paul,



It is uplifting to get such feedback every now and again. A lot of work is involved

often by more than one individual, hundreds of hours of work, sound editing that hurts

the ears and drives the mind to near madness, a great deal of knowledge and much trial

and error when software lack what it takes to solve specific problems and having to go

through very long and winding routes to get to where one needs to go.



Needless to say, the software we have is indispensable even with the limitations - don't

get me wrong - but I feel there is room for improvement. Another free rival software has

been taken over from the original developers and is being upgraded as needs arise and

requests made for new features and a new organ building software has finally been created

facilitating the job considerably. For jOrgan that never had its own integrating sound

engine and creating an sf2 font file for fluidsynth is already a stumbling block in sample-

set creation.



There comes a time when any piece of software, jOrgan being no exception, needs re-visiting

and a nudge forward to meet demands. If it does not, it will inevitably fall by the wayside.

It would be a great pity if that happens.



Mark__________MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*













































jOrgan 4.1



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-01-05 11:41



It appears that the latest version of jOrgan is 4.1. Is there one for windows?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-01-05 12:52



On 2024-01-05 11:41, Mark Bugeja wrote:

It appears that the latest version of jOrgan is 4.1. Is there one for windows?”



Hi Mark,



The answer is, "Yes". Its full name is jOrgan-4.0.Beta1 and it was created by Sven

to allow jOrgan easy use of Fluidsynth Version 2.



The 4.1 was created by Sven for use with the Raspberry Pi 4B. It is 64-bit. It also uses

Fluidsynth Version 2. But just before 2023 ended, with the discovery that Raspberry Pi

now has Fluidsynth Version 3 being installed by default, Sven created jorgan_4.2_arm64

to cope with this situation.



My impression is that Sven intends to create only 64-bit versions of jOrgan from now on.



The easiest way to get to the jOrgan downloads page is to do a search on "jorgan files".



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-05 13:08



Thanks John,



I do have 4.0.Beta1 (64x with FS 2.2.8). I was first alerted to a possible update

when I loaded your files and got a warning whilst using 4.0.b1. I searched sourceforge

but did not find a windows version for 4.1.



I do install 64x version of software when the option between 32x and 64x exists.



Can FS 3 be used with 4.0.b1 (for windows)? I suppose not!



Regards

Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-05 14:33



I have successfully installed FS 2.3.4 (I had to create an xml file and relocate

the corresponding files in the same structure as 2.2.8) but cannot find any FS 3

for windows.__________MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*



















































Pedal Volume



From Jolly Zekkariya on 2024-01-07 18:19



Greetings jOrgan community!



Could anybody be knowing how I can lower the volume of one stop. Specifically the

Bombarde is too loud in the pedal division. I would much like to reduce its volume

so it can blend well with other registrations.



Regards,

Jolly Avishai

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Chris Pearson on 2024-01-08 01:42



Hi, Jolly



There are two ways to do this.



What I would consider the best way is:



1. Open the disposition as normal. (I would suggest making a copy first)

2. Click on the "construct organ" icon, (top left of screen)

3. Click on "View" at the top of the screen and in the drop down list, select

"References" and "Messages", if not already showing.

4. Now click on the stop who's volume you want to alter, in your case the Bombarde.

5. The Bombarde should now appear in the References panel. With "References TO elements"

selected.

6. Double click on "Bombarde"

7. The "Messages" panel should now show a list of items.

8. Find the message "Note played" and in the MPL column against it will be

"set 144, set pitch, set xx". Where "xx" is the volume of the note, a number

between 0 and 127.

9. Click with your cursor just after this number, backspace to clear the number

and enter a lower value, (higher to make in louder) I usually adjust in 10's

with, and then a lower value.

10. Exit construct mode and save.

11. Test and adjust accordingly by repeating steps 2 to 10.



The other way is to amend the sf2 file.



Hope this helps!



Regards

Chris Pearson

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-08 01:47



Hello Jolly...

...it would be helpful to know the platform and version of jOrgan

you are using. i.e. Windows, Mac, Rpi etc. Have you built your

own disposition or are you using one of the downloadable ones.



The answer in a general way is yes. You can edit the soundfont and reduce the volume.



Best Regards

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-01-08 06:34



You can, either, modify the volume of the instrument or preset in Poly phone Soundfont

editor, or in jOrgan, make a volume control, uniquely, for the bombard stop. Either has

its different advantages.

The latter would allow for variable changes in loudness in jOrgan, while the former

would not. If you can set the volume in Poly phone to be in balance with the other

stops, that is likely to be preferred.

John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Jolly Zekkariya on 2024-01-10 01:56



Thank you Chris Pearson



It has absolutely worked! Great advice you gave.



Thankful!



Jolly__________MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

























































About version 4.x for windows



From Pascal Collet on 2024-01-08 03:16



To protect your privacy remote resources have been blocked.

Hello, first of all "best musical wishes" to all that contribute to this project.



I want to migrate from 16 bit version to 32 bit version (as new computer allow this).

- Step 1 : have tested 16 bit version and it work fine.

- Step 2 : loading, extact and install "jOrgan-4.0.Beta1-installer-amd64"

- Check with "NORDEN SCHNITGER" dispositon but no sound comes out (with a midi keyboard,

see activation of the key on the virtual keyboard and also try without success on the

virtual keyboard on screen)

Gives an error "could not load soundfound" (have check the location of SF2 in construct

mode and that's the right directory and name). In construct mode / Fluidsynth sound

(properties), there is no "audio driver" selectable (and, of cours, "audio device".

In configuration (preferences) for Fluidsynth, there are no backend available.



Have download version 2.3 of fluidsynth and copy in jOrgan/lib/fluidsynth. I so the

backend and select it. Restart jOrgan wihtout success.



Is there an help/guidlines to install this program ?

Thanks for the care.



Pascal C.

Belgium - Rixensart

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-08 04:05



Hello Pascal:

I appears you are moving to the 64bit version of jOrgan. Do you have the 64bit version

of Java installed?



You can check in the Control Panel/Java/Java/View



jOrgan already has Fluidsynth in it.



Best Wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-01-08 07:44



You must be sure that you do NOT mix a 32-bit version of Java RE with a 64-bit version

of jOrgan. You must install Java RE 64-bit and jOrgan version 4.1 Beta 1 64-bit.

Otherwise, it will not work. Access the Error Log and it will inform you of what the

error or problem is, generally, with a "failed" or "failure" message. If you copy the

information to clipboard you can paste it in the body of the email post to this forum

for help if you need it.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Pascal Collet on 2024-01-09 01:59



After reading your advice, i'd check the configuration. There were two versions of java,

a 32 bits and a 64 bits who's active. So after deinstallation of both and jOrgan. I could

re-install the 64 bits and jOrgan 4. And now, it works fine.

Apologize for my mistake and thank to take care of my problem.



regards

Pascal C.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-01-09 02:02



I'm assuming you had a 32 x Java installed in the Program files directory instead of

the 64x

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Pascal Collet on 2024-01-09 04:03



32bits was in Program (x86)

64bit s was in Program Files

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-09 04:20



Regarding versions of jOrgan and Java:



The location of Java is the secret to running 32bit and 64 bit side by side. If you

specify the location of Java like this as an example:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_321\bin\java.exe" -jar "c:\jOrgan3211_32\jorgan.jar"



You can run any version you wish. I have 2 versions of jOrgan each 32bit and 64bit running

from my desktop in Windows 11p. You must be careful about the backends.



Best wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-09 15:55



Regarding different "bits" of Java.



It is my understanding (in a Windows environment) if there are both 32 bit and 64 bit

versions of Java, that the last version of Java installed prior to installing jOrgan is

the version of Java that will be linked automatically when starting jOrgan (whether it

is suitable or not for jOrgan).

This can be manipulated by a user who understands setting Path commands.



I must admit that I know nothing about creating installer packages, but it would seem to

me that it should be possible for an installer package to check for the correct package

and install it if needed. (this is done by other software I use).



I have also been suggesting for well over 10 years that the jOrgan Windows installer

package should install some of the package files in different places to what it does.

(again, I don't know what is involved to make this change)



It seems to me that altering these two things would greatly improve the chances of a first

time user of jOrgan having sucess.

Maybe it is left as a hurdle to keep out those who don't show enough commitment.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-09 16:20



A further note about Java.



In the Windows Control Panel/Java/Java/View you can activate or de-activate an individual version.



Best Wishes

Marc-Paul____MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*









































Dual Touch Screen Monitors



From Bill Skees on 2024-01-09 02:11



At last I have acquired two touch-screen monitors. Ultimately I hope to use them

with Allman’s multi-multi-stop disposition. Meanwhile I am thoroughly enjoying playing

Rick Whatson’s excellent Christie disposition FS 3MP V320 03.



Problem is that Christie and the other dispositions I have tried seem to see only one

monitor in the customize mode. I can’t figure out whether the “elements” mode can help me.



I am using a Mac Book Air with OS 10.11.6 and jOrgan 3.20.



Could anyone give me some guidance here?



Thanks,

Bill

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-09 03:32



Hey Bill...

...I wish I could help, but my oldest OS X is Mojave 10.14 and I use

iPads as external monitors... which solves the touch need. I am very

interested to see if anyone offers help.

Best Wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Howard A. Ashley on 2024-01-09 04:24



Hi Bill (The Bill?),

I use Windows for jOrgan but Macs for other things. I've never set up

dual monitors in Mac OS but it should be fairly intuitive. Are the

monitors working when not in jOrgan? Windows gives you the option of

configuring dual monitors in various ways: as a mirror of each other

or as an extended continuous space. My assumption is to treat the two

monitors as one large extended space. The touch is configured

separately in an appropriate part of the 'Settings'. You should be

able to interact with both monitors and make sure the computer

recognizes touch input from each. About the only aspect of dual

monitor use where jOrgan itself gets involved is that "Full Screen" mode

has to be in force for you to see the second screen. In Windows F11

toggles 'full screen' on and off. Hope this gets you closer.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From Andrew Larkham on 2024-01-09 04:38



Hi Bill.

I've done this in Windows...



From memory.

In jOrgan construct mode.

Add 2 additional screen. (Might be called display or something) I call mine Left and

Right but leave the original screen as was.

You then need to copy the elements from the Original screen to the appropriate new screen.

This can be frustrating!

Assuming your OS has detected both screens when you go into each screen property you should

be able to select Display 0 or Display 1

F11 should then give you 2 screens!



Good luck.

Andy

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Howard A. Ashley on 2024-01-09 05:18



Hi Andrew,

It should not be necessary to take the steps you have outlined when using

an existing disposition. If you are creating the disposition, yes, you would

need to construct those elements, but you would then also have to construct

the skins for it and assemble all the new elements that would allow it to

function as an interface. Most people don't want an identical copy of the

first display on the second monitor, they want a left and right pair of

'jambs' like the real organ does. This usually means the first monitor's

'skin' has to be modified to reflect that it now only controls half the organ.

My assumption is that the disposition Bill is using already has all the dual

monitor functionality necessary built in. If not, then a second monitor cannot

be used without a lot more work.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Andrew Larkham on 2024-01-09 05:42



Hi Howard.

It's personal choice really.

I found it useful to still have the original display as:

1 it made it easier to copy paste to the new displays.

2 you had a way back if something goes wrong.(and I found it does)



there is no problem leaving it alone.



Andy.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-09 16:03



Hi Bill



Nice to see you still active with jOrgan.

I am pleased people still find the Christie disposition useful.



I have not yet tried to use two screens with virtual organ.



Can I suggest that going into construct mode, you should be able to simply start drag-and-

dropping stops on your screen further to the right to stretch a single "console" view across

two screens.

As has already been suggested, you could also create another "console" element and copy-paste

stops to the new screen.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-09 16:10



A further thought.

The magnification factor of jOrgan can be adjusted in the "Customize" settings, and

individual "elements" can have their size adjusted in Construct mode.

Some experimentation will be needed to get this all to balance.



Someone mentioned doing this dual screen application would require changes to the "skin".

This is not the case at all.



Regards

Rick.



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Bill Skees on 2024-01-16 05:44



Both touch screen monitors are operational with a dedicated Mac Mini running OS 10.14.6



I think I could have the configuration I wanted if I could get either of these two things

to work:



in jOrgan display two consoles at once (the consoles show up in the customize 2nd

screen with screen/displays settings)



in Mac OS stretch the same window over two monitors.



Any thoughts?



Thanks,

Bill

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-16 07:09



Hi Bill...

In my not so humble opinion, Mojave is the best OS that Mac has ever released. And the

Mac mini can be upgraded with 16gb Ram and a SSD( Intel Core i5). It works with jOrgan,

Qsynth and Loopback which is how I distribute audio.



System Preferences/Displays/Arrangement and check the "Mirror Displays" box.



That should get you what you want.



Best Wishes

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Bill Skees on 2024-01-16 08:17



Thanks for thinking this through for me, Marc-Paul. I also am happy with Mojave.



The problem for me with "Mirror Displays” is that I want the two displays to show two

different windows, in effect I want a left console and a right console like you would

have on a large church organ or a large theatre organ. I have physical push buttons

below each keyboard manual for combinations and generals, but I want the “wings” (left

and right consoles) to house the tabs for the individual voices.



Don’t worry though, if it can’t be done, then it can’t be done.



Thanks again and best wishes,

Bill

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Andrew Larkham on 2024-01-16 08:45



Just a thought....

In console properties have you selected display0 for one and display1 for the other?



Andy

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Howard A. Ashley on 2024-01-16 16:51



Hi Bill,

I was attempting to tell you how I've seen it done in the dispositions I've used.

I suspected what you were after. Why don't you download one of Rev. Stratman's large

organ dispositions: American Classic Organ or English Cathedral organ and see how he

does it. And, yes, I found that using the extended desktop is the way and in the

jOrgan program using the "full screen' option. With your background you will have it

in a cinch if you download a working example of what you want to accomplish and

reverse engineer your own from it.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-01-16 16:54



Hello Bill...

I have played around with Stratman Stiehr-Mockers / Jeux d’orgues 2. It has several consoles.



My thought is if you could cut the console graphic right down the middle one could achieve

what you are interested in.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-16 17:42



Hello Bill



I have tried some things and found the following.



I have 2x AOC (USB-C) 15.6" touch screens on Windows 11 set as extended desktop.



USB-C is supposed to be able to provide monitor power, video signal and touch control,

but to get a second screen to function I need to provide one of the screens a second USB

cable. I have not yet got to the bottom of this, but it seems that my Intel NUC (computer)

is only able to send the triple function signal out of one of its two USB-C ports.

Once I do get both screens displaying, the touch function on the right screen only works

on the taskbar and not on any applications running on the right screen. The mouse is able

to activate functions on the right screen though.



With regard to jOrgan and the Christie disposition.

I made a copy of a disposition file then went into "Construct Mode". I turned off all other

display tabs so the drag and drop element edit screen is the only thing shown in the display.

I then started highlighting sections of tabs and dragged them around, moving the Solo and

Great to the right and moving other sections as needed. I went back and forth from Construct

mode to Play mode to see what things looked like. Once I was close, I went into "Customize"

mode and increased the display size (It had been set to 0.8, I found 1.0 was good). then some

more back and forth.

Once close, I found that putting the display size back down allowed me more screen room to

move things, but once positioned where I wanted them I put the display size back to 1.0.

The screen layout looks good across the two screens and is significantly larger than the

cramped single screen.

I can't "touch" on the right screen, but that is a hardware problem, not jOrgan.

If I set jOrgan to Full Screen it only fills the left screen, so half the console is missing,

but with the jOrgan window dragged to fit across both screens it looks good.

I only spent about half an hour fiddling, and was quite pleased with the results.



I do have the "Settings" Tab in the Christie disposition, but in this experiment I couldn't

make it display on the second screen.



What have you tried so far?



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Bill Skees on 2024-01-17 04:58



On Jan 15, 2024, at 4:45 PM, Andrew Larkham wrote:

"Just a thought....

In console properties have you selected display0 for one and display1 for the other?"



Hi Andy,



Yes I did, but apparently jOrgan will not display both at the same time.



Bill

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Andrew Larkham on 2024-01-17 05:09



Hi Bill.

That's strange...

I have 2 touchscreens and can make each console display on separate screens.

Possibly hardware?

I'm using Win10.



Andy

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-17 13:42



A link to pictures of my dual screen experiment posted on Facebook jOrgan group.



https://www.facebook.com/groups/692660577561309/permalink/2542523089241706/?mibextid=Nif5oz



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-01-17 16:16



Try right click on one of the screens and select appropriate display.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-17 16:23 +19



I noted that that this is possible in full screen mode. I am currently using Win 11

and jOrgan 4.0 beta1.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-05 16:33



I have taken the liberty of including here an excerpt from RickW's recent post to

the jOrgan Facebook Group, because of its relevance to this thread:



"I have been using the Windows Project setting of Extended Desktop, and have solved

the Touch issue for the second screen. I did a search and found the solution.

In Control Panel - Tablet PC Settings, Configure - Setup... and follow the prompts.

It asks you to touch one screen then the next. All fixed."



Best wishes,

JohnR______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*















































text on stops



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-11 07:28



How can one apply two different text styles on a single stop eg 2 colours for different

parts of the text?



(NOTE FROM JOHNR: I did not receive this post from Sourceforge for some reason, but

I did receive it as an email. I replied by email.)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

















































Crescendo Volume



From Jolly Zekkariya on 2024-01-16 00:12



Greetings jOrgan community,



I appreciate all the help I have been receiving from this forum that has made me a

better user by the months.



A recent issue I am experiencing is about the crescendo volume.



I am using the Dynamic Wind disposition with jOrgan 3.21-beta1 on Windows 10.



The crescendo volume seems to have its own registrations therein because even when

I don't have any stops active, once the volume is up by even a few bars, there is sound.



I thought the crescendo is supposed to amplify what has already been selected. I could

be wrong on that!



I need help in trying to get more volume from my registrations. From customization I am

already at 0.8 gain.



Is there a way, I can have the crescendo volume do that for me; amplify what I have

already selected. (Or in a way, increase my gain?)



Thanks,

Jolly Z. A

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Roy Radford on 2024-01-16 00:44



Hi, Jolly,

I've not been doing much of this sort of thing for several years now but,

so far as I remember, a Crescendo pedal has its own set of stops and

engages progressively louder ones independently of any user stops.

Have fun,



Roy. (UK)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From Jolly Zekkariya on 2024-01-16 00:54



Thanks Roy,



Yes, I've found out it does have its own registrations. I guess, I'll have to increase

the individual stop volumes to get my registrations louder.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-01-16 02:54



Crescendo, as differentiated from sforzando, should be effectuated by the use of the

swell pedal with the stops that are activated in the swell division.

However, years ago, the construction of a crescendo was a progressive-stage, numbered

sequence of regulators and activators of referenced combinations and/or stops comprising

the build-up of the crescendo with stops from any division of the organ. This is more

akin to the sforzando pedal where the build-up is in graduated stages of added stops,

with a series of green lights that indicate the specific level at which the pedal is,

in the progression.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-16 02:55



Hi Jolly,



I think you are mixing a crescendo with a swell pedal. They are two different things.



It is the swell pedal that increases the volume only (usually of the swell, hence the name,

or positive or solo divisions - each having its own "swell pedal"); a crescendo pedal, on

the other hand, adds pre-designated sequence of stops, with more stops being added as the

pedal is pressed down.



Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Jolly Zekkariya on 2024-01-16 05:04



Thanks for the clarification.______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*





















































Fluidsynth Reverb Parameters

(WAS About version 4.x for windows)



From Pascal Collet on 2024-01-26 07:58

hello, See below about fluidsynth and its parameters.



On 19/01/2024 10:34, Pascal Collet wrote:

Indeed, I would like to re-install version 32 (it seems possible to have both versions

and to choose the active one). With the 64-bit version, I cannot find the right parameters

for fluidsynth reverberation, and have re-use the same for the four main (level, room,...)

as in version 32 bits (the sound does not decrease regularly). I will look to see if there

is a description of all the settings. There was a discussion about this in the past.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-01-26 09:52

There is nothing odd about reinstalling Java solving Fluidsynth issues.

In a Windows environment, the last installed "version" (either 32 bit or 64 bit) has the

correct "Path" link.



Having both 32 bit and 64 bit of Java installed is no guarantee it will work. It is only

the last installed version that has correct "Path" links.



It is possible to get both versions running and active on a system, but to do so requires

creating DOS Batch files to address the correct "Path" when starting different versions of

jOrgan.



I don't know how to tell you how to write the DOS batch files. I just know that it is

necessary, and that the last installed version is the only one that will work

"automatically" without needing a DOS batch file.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-01-26 12:37



On 2024-01-26 09:52, RickW wrote:

"There is nothing odd about reinstalling Java solving Fluidsynth issues."



Thank you, Rick, for replying to this post and to many others on the List. I think that

Pascal has moved on from that matter, and is now asking about what the Fluidsynth Reverb

parameters mean.



I shall try to address this.

Note that all the parameters must be in the range 0-1.



LEVEL controls the level of the reverberation output from Fluidsynth accompanying the

"straight" output.

"0" means there will be no reverb signal output.

I suggest something in the range 0.1-0.2, but this is up to each user. Just bear in mind

that a number of users find the cyclic modulation (of phase?) produced by the Fluidsynth V.2

to be annoying. The higher the LEVEL setting, the more obvious it will be. High settings of

this parameter may cause the sound to build up in an obviously delayed way, which I think

can sound unnatural.



ROOM controls the "size" of the space being synthesized. "1" may run the risk of causing

uncontrollable feedback. I suggest using anything up to about 0.95 - but even this much will

produce the effect of a very large cathedral.



DAMPING tries to emulate the way reverberation is pitch-selective: treble sounds become

attenuated more than bass sounds. Settings are often found in the range 0.2-0.3 . I think

it would be interesting for someone to do a test on various settings of this parameter,

and report back.



WIDTH controls (I think) the panning of the reverb signal compared to the straight signal.

I normally just use "1", which I think means that the two signals will be spread across

the sound field in an equal fashion. It would be interesting to hear people report on much

smaller settings (causing a narrowing of the reverb towards the middle, I think).



For the record, I think that the sound quality of the Fluidsynth V.2 reverb is much higher

than that of Fluidsynth V.1, even with that modulation. I don't really notice it when music

is being played. Of course, if you are holding down just single notes, on a single stop, it

is a different matter altogether.



Best wishes,

John______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*















































Fluidsynth 2.3.4



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-01-27 22:37



Fluidsynth has recently been updated to version 2.3.4 (September 2023).



jOrgan still depends on PortAudio which is based on FS 2.1.0 or Fluidsynth 2.2.8.



I imagine that it would help us get better sound quality out of these backends if they were

updated accordingly to utilise the latest FS version.



In my ignorance to what is required, I thought I could download FS 2.3.4, amend the old

backend xml to include the updated files and transfer the respective files in the same

structure as 2.2.8 but that did not work out. I got to see it in jOrgan's configuration

of FS but there is no sound and "Fluidsynth failure" is reported by jOrgan. So there must

be more to it than what I did. I tried..... 🙁 .



Sven? Graham?



Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-01-28 02:54



Has any progress been made regarding the change of the parameters that cause the reverb,

above a setting of 10-15 in jOrgan, to, objectionably, alter the speed of the looped wave

files of engaged stops?

This has been our problem with Fluidsynth. For users with Creative Labs soundcards, it

is possible to get good reverb with a Creative Sound version of dispositions. However,

you do have to use the Soundfont Bank Manager to load the Soundfont(s) of the disposition,

manually, and use the audio console app to set the reverb. It is of a higher quality than

Fluidsynth which can be acceptable if level is kept between 10 and 15.



Both the Audigy 5 RZ and the Audigy 2 (ZS) can be used with the same driver from the

5 RZ. If using with the 2 ZS, install the driver, manually, by unzipping the "audio" file,

navigate to the "wdm" file and select it, right click, then, "install." Reboot and you are

good to go.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-01-28 05:11



Perhaps you might find your answer on the fluidsynth website:

https://www.fluidsynth.org/



______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*









































jOrgan and a DAW



From alex stone on 2024-02-09 04:05



Hello, I'm currently trying to run Jorgan, and give it messages from a DAW (Muse4).





OS: AVL-MXDE (Linux)



Jorgan version: 4.1



Disposition: English Cathedral organ.



Midi port connecting Jorgan to Muse4: Virtual_midi 1.0 (midi channels 1-6)





I've set up 5 tracks, for the manuals and pedals, each one with a different midi channel,

through a single mid port.



When I enter the customize wizard and navigate to the Switches tab, I can press a key,

with the mouse, in the vertical keyboard of the Muse midi editor, and a yellow icon

appears in the "activate" cell. So Jorgan knows "something" is connecting to it.



However, when i add a midi note to the canvas in the Muse Midi Editor, which corresponds

to the note from which i sent the message, nothing happens.



Example, for the 5 presets, plus the "clear" preset, I clicked on C0 to A0, representing

six white notes to match 5 plus 1 presets.



C0 is "clear", the rest are the presets. I add a note at D0, expecting Jorgan to recognize

the midi note message, and select the first preset.



None of this works.



Has anyone tried this, or is currently using a similar setup, and if so, where am I going

wrong? (I assume user error, by default)



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-09 09:11



Hi Alex,



Welcome to the jOrgan Mailing List!



Have you followed the INSTRUCTIONS FOOTNOTES a) Use of the Customizer, at this address:

https://jorgan.info/INSTRUCTIONS.pdf



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-09 09:39



Hello John.



Yes, I've been through the footnotes, but it doesn't say anything about assigning

midi program changes in a DAW (digital audio sequencer) to Jorgan presets. It only

refers to physical midi hardware, unless i've misunderstood.



Alex

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-09 10:11



Hi Alex,



Does this indicate that your intention is to use only one preset at a time?



A separate question- have you used the jOrgan MIDI Monitor (set to Input messages)

to verify that the expected program change messages are getting through?



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-09 19:59



Hi John, yes, i plan to setup presets per rank, over 5 tracks in muse4. So 5 sets of presets.



Thanks for the tip about the midi monitor, i'll go and test that.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-09 22:46



Hi Alex,



I believe I have found a way to deliver what you want.



Let us assume that your disposition allows you 5 General pistons. Consider the C (General

Cancel) as one you add to them. You now have G0, G1, G2, G3, G4 and G5. Use the Customizer

to "link" your six DAW switches to those six pistons, one to each. Prime the linking each

time by clicking on the "Activate" cell first (but in the case of G0, use "Toggle" instead).



The next task is to make a change to the jOrgan disposition. For EACH of those six pistons,

add references TO each of the other five. (Tell me if you are not sure how to do that). You

do of course have to go into Construct mode to make those changes. Do a SAVE after you have

entered all the references.



Then go into Play mode and use the SET piston to set up whatever stops you wish to associate

with each preset. Do a SAVE when you have finished.



You will find when using this system that the most recent piston you activated using the DAW

remains in the "activated" indication until some other program change is sent via one of the

other five switches (including G0 - the GENERAL CANCEL). If it is GENERAL CANCEL which you use,

that could be inconvenient if you have used the mouse to turn on some stop and now want to

turn it off using the DAW, as the GENERAL CANCEL can't be used while that "activated" image

is showing. The problem can be avoided in paragraph two above by priming the linking of G0 with

"Toggle" instead of "Activate". Using the G0 DAW switch twice (as in "double-click") will

deactivate the GENERAL CANCEL.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-10 02:16



John, I could certainly use some help with references for the pistons. This is my first foray

into modifying dispositions.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-02-10 04:34



JohnR...

This is a beautiful description of what to do. Very clear.



I wonder if in MuseScore, another staff (keyboard) could be used for stops

or pistons. It seems the customizer in jOrgan would see those midi

messages.



I think I will test this in Mac OSX.

Thankyou!!!



Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-10 12:16



Hi Alex,



Here is a guide to adding References. I apologise for its wordiness. I tried to cover

all possible missteps or questions. The process is much simpler than it appears to be here.



1. Run jOrgan and open the disposition.

2. Go into Construct mode.

3. Select the Element you are working with (a simple and quick way to do this - unless it

is a hidden element - is to click on it in the Console View) . Otherwise you have to find

it in one of the Groups at the left in the Elements List. (Click View > Elements if the

Elements List is not already showing.)

4. Show the References View (Click View > References if it is not already showing) and click

on the “Add references” icon. (It is the leftmost icon in the row of six icons. Hovering the

mouse pointer over them identifies them for you). Note that the References View that came up

is the one for the Element you are working with.

5. The first window to appear is for References TO, and you need to select any Elements

involved, if there are any. Hold down CTRL while you do this.

6. Click “Next”, or if there are no References FROM to be added, you can simply click on

Finish” instead of “Next”. (However, “”Finish” will be greyed-out if you have not added

any References TO).

7. Repeat Step 5 for any References FROM, if relevant.

8. Click “Finish”. (If for some reason you have not added any, you will need to click “Cancel”.

9. Always SAVE the disposition after adding any References or group of References.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-10 21:09



Hi John,



no apologies needed. You're trying to help me, which is appreciated.





Ok, in short, it didn't work. When i attempted to change a preset using a program change,

it was as if all the presets were suddenly battling at once, and the audio was, well,

chaotic. I carefully checked all the references (a new disposition skill you've helped me

attain) and they were correct.



I then attempted to do the same setup in Reaper, with the same result, then Qtractor, again,

the chaos waltz.



It seemed to be connected to the sequencer (at least it did then), as it kept trying to jump

from piston 1 to 2 then 10, and the sequencer showed the number changing, so i removed all

references to the sequencer, but the chaos continued, regardless of whether the sequencer

was there or not.



I'm going to keep trying this, as I have a backup of the disposition so I can hack

away at will.



Still, I've learned a lot so far, for which I am grateful to you.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-11 09:21



On 2024-02-10 21:09, alex stone wrote: "Ok, in short, it didn't work."



Hi Alex,



Thank you for your report - not exactly what I was expecting, but there you are! ;-)



At least we know that you have jOrgan running, you have opened the disposition, and you are

getting audio. That excludes a huge number of possible problems.



The screenshot you put up seemed to show nothing amiss. But bear in mind that I am very rusty

on MIDI messages. It would have been very helpful for someone else on the Mailing List to

interpret the numbers for us, starting with the numbers at the top of the list. (This last

statement has been corrected here by JohnR)



By the way, in your post that didn't make it into the Mailing List, what did the L-bank and

R-bank mean - I don't recognise those terms. I am sorry if my memory is playing tricks on what

the terms were - I hope I got them right.



I know next to nothing about DAW's or sequencers, but I suspect that you do not yet have the

jOrgan Customizer properly set up. What I am asking for is two new screenshots, which show

the state of play when you were experiencing all that audio chaos, as you called it. If you

saved the disposition when closing it or exiting, that means that it left the Customizer in

exactly the state it was during your test run. If you didn't save it, try to recreate the chaos

and then take the screenshots. Take one screenshot of page 1 of the Customizer. Then go to

page 3 (the Switches), scroll down to the General pistons 1 to 5, and take the screenshot

showing that. Then put the files up and send us the links.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-11 09:36



Hi John. I have no problem with running Jorgan as standalone, and operating all the bells

and whistles with mouseclicks, midi keyboard, and keybindings. That's not the challenge,

at least not for now.



I deleted the post that didn't make it, so i'm not sure what i wrote.



I'll do the screenshots tomorrow, as it's late here, and I've been hammering away at this

most of the day.



I have a question though.



Is it worth submitting a feature request for adding the ability to Jorgan to accept midi

messages, like program changes, directly in the Customize panel that has the Activate,

Deactivate, and Toggle cells?



Or even assign them directly to pistons? Press set, then activate the midi message, then

press the piston, or something like that. (Maybe the other way round.)



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-11 15:02 +12



On 2024-02-11 09:36, alex stone wrote: “I deleted the post that didn't make it,

so i'm not sure what i wrote”.



Alex,

The words were in this segment: "L-Bank = 0 H-Bank = 32 Preset = 1"

As you can see, I didn't quite remember them accurately. L-Bank and H-Bank were the terms

I was wondering about.



I'll do the screenshots tomorrow



Alex,

Whenever it's convenient. I look forward to seeing them.



Is it worth submitting a feature request for adding the ability to Jorgan to accept midi

messages, like program changes, directly in the Customize panel that has the Activate,

Deactivate, and Toggle cells?



Alex,

As far as I am aware, that's precisely what we have at the moment. But you have to prime

the acceptance by clicking in the appropriate cell before you initiate the message.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-02-11 17:13



Greetings Alex and JohnR:



I would like to interject another idea/solution. Thanks to JohnR's

excellent knowledge of the jOrgan system I though of another way to

accomplish sending midi data to jOrgan from MuseScore. This was done in Mac

OSX but should work in any OS providing you have an app to connect midi I/O.

I am looking for something in Ubuntu Studio that does not require Jack.



This is a simple proof of concept that needs to be developed further.



I setup an organ score with another score below it. The bottom staff

transmits on a separate midi channel. I look at the bottom score as stops

and pistons. I designated treble F as General Piston 1. Then used the

customizer to listen to that note to activate Piston 1. It worked

perfectly. When I played the score back it activated the Piston and played

the registration that was set. I have no reason to believe it would not

control stops as well.



I made no changes to the disposition other than Customize.



I will continue to experiment.

Happy Trails

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-02-11 19:36



Let me share some thoughts and see where it might lead.



jOrgan has the capability to do pretty much anything you can think of to do with MIDI Input,

MIDI Manipulation and MIDI Output.

If there is some sort of format to follow from a particular console or sequenced MIDI files

from an instrument where you know the addressing of messages being recorded, you can set-up

any disposition to use this information.



If you are wanting to create a situation where you want to send Piston messages to jOrgan,

then you need to set an arbitrary list on one side and then match it in jOrgan.

You can never match free-form with free-form, you need to set a listing on either the

sending side or the receiving side, then match them up.

Which came first the Chicken or the Egg. In this case you need to decide a format for one

side then match it up.



jOrgan can "learn" Piston MIDI Messages, but each Piston must first have I think at least

Activate Message lines in the disposition before the "Learn" links will show up.



The jOrgan Christie disposition

http://tcptechnology.com.au/vtpo/

has default Piston MIDI PC messages 1 through 15 already setup. I don't know how many

other shared dispositions have those messages predefined.



I have done extensive work sending recorded MIDI sequences from a real pipe organ console

of the "Christie" Theatre Organ, that the "Christie" jOrgan disposition is built to emulate.

The sequencer in the real pipe organ records all Stop movement, not Piston changes. This is

able to replay a performance with all registration changes in real-time.

I have MIDI Messages set for every Stop in the "Christie" disposition.



I use Cakewalk by Bandlab to visualise and replay MIDI files fed to a specifically

configured version of the "Christie" disposition.



Does this shed some light anywhere?



Another thought. Sending a MIDI file of just Note messages on different channels can play jOrgan,

and if you have the jOrgan recorder running while you play this MIDI in, you can change

registrations by Pistons and this will be recorded, then can be played back by the jOrgan

inbuilt recorder including registration changes.

The inbuilt jOrgan recorder has it's own set of rules and functionality, particularly relating

to stop changes.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-11 20:32



Hi Rick, and thanks for the great info.

I've D/L the Christie disposition, and will examine it closely, given i'm new to dispositions.



From what you've written, can I assume I need to decide on which particular protocol to use?

I'm thinking about using program changes, because they're easy to add and modify in just about

every Seq i've ever used.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-11 20:51



A big "Thank You" to Marc-Paul and Rick for coming in on this thread. It is truly a team

effort, and I think we are now on the way to solving it.



Alex's latest screenshots show, I think, that there was nothing wrong with his use of the

Customizer. The video shows clearly what the chaos is! Rick's post suggests that if we can

assign appropriate activate MIDI messages to the stops, we can prevent what we see

happening in the video. What remains to be explained is why the General pistons to which

have been assigned activate MIDI messages are misbehaving.



It is certainly possible to assign MIDI messages to the stops. I have done this in my

Norden Schnitger disposition for my home console, where I have a second RPi 3B to the right

of the manuals, sending some stop activate/deactivate messages to the main RPi 3B on the

left. The messages are:



Deactivate equal 159, equal 9, equal 0

Activate equal 159, equal 9, equal 100



The 159 specifies a MIDI channel not being used by the DAW/sequencer. The 9 specifies the

particular stop. Such messages can easily be added to the stops. They only need to be added

once, then copied, then pasted to each stop in turn. As far as I can see, it can be the

same pair of messages for each stop.



The reason I chose to use the pistons to control things is that in Alex's situation, there

was only a program change message being sent, so no "stop off" could be envisaged. Marc-

Paul's idea for stop control will work, but each "note" will control only one stop. The

pistons allow much greater flexibility.



Perhaps we can hope that once the stop misbehaviour is fixed, the pistons will behave

themselves!



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-11 21:07



Further to my previous post, the pair of messages I showed there are actually those

on the receiving end, in the main computer. They show the sort of thing that would be

needed to tame the stops in Alex's disposition.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-11 21:53



Hi John.



A question, as I briefly come up for air from my concentration on the disposition.

How do I assign midi messages to the stops?

I do this in Construct mode?



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-02-11 22:20



Everything "under the bonnet" is done in Construct Mode. Yes, setting Messages for Stops

is done in Construct Mode.



It is only things relating to playing music that happen not in Construct Mode. Setting

a Combination on a Piston is done in play mode.



Stops will need an On and an Off message.



Pistons can be triggered by Program Change messages which are only ever a single state

message.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-11 22:44



Thanks Rick. I shall go hunting.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-11 23:26



Something like this?





https://ibb.co/XZRSSfZ

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-02-11 23:39



I'm not sure about the Reference To each of the other Pistons.

Each Piston needs to be referenced to all of the stops it can control and to Set, but I

don't think they should Reference each other.



MidiOx is a very useful tool to view MIDI messages.

For some reason I have in the back of my mind that the Messages view in jOrgan displays

0 based MIDI Decimal values, but that when writing MIDI Messages in jOrgan they need to

be written as 1 based Decimal values.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-12 06:44



On 2024-02-11 23:26, alex stone wrote: “Something like this? https://ibb.co/XZRSSfZ



Alex,



Those are sending messages. You need receiving messages to protect the stops. At least,

that is what I thought Rick's long post implied. See my two most recent post(s). Use

"equal" and not "set".



By the way, the jOrgan Monitor shows MIDI Channel 1 in messages as "0", but on page 1

of the Customizer it shows Channel 1 as "1". Sven made the change to the Customizer

because too many users found "0" confusing.



Can you please check that the General pistons you are using are not already loaded with

stops to be operated. I don't believe we yet have any idea why the stops were behaving

the way they do in that video.



Best wishes,

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-12 08:29



John,



I figured out the difference between send and receive messages this afternoon, after

reading Bill Skees epic 4 part PDF series, so cheerfully ignore the pic.



I have had some success with Qtractor.



I can now insert notes on a dedicated organ data track that corresponds with General

Pistons. So c-1 is now GP1, c#-1 is now GP2, and so on. It works, and does so reliably

(at least for now.)



I'm currently working on Muse4, which isn't playing so far, but I now have something

to use, and Qtractor has been progressing steadily, with some important updates recently.



So it's a modest win today, and I thank you, Rick and Marc-Paul for your help. I'm just

starting the Jorgan journey, and I can see it being interesting.



Each disposition I've tried so far has its own unique aural signature, and I can envisage

the English Cathedral, and ACO 104, as assets for writing for organ and orchestra. (Which

is the reason I'm doing all this)



There's a "concert" feel to both dispositions, and all credit to those who created them.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-02-12 10:14



For an even deeper "nuts & bolts" explanation of the deep workings of jOrgan,

Bruce Miles - jOrgan Notes is important reading.



https://jorgan.info/base/bm/Midi_Consoles.html Bruce Miles home page



https://jorgan.info/base/bm/jorgan_notes.pdf Bruce Miles - jOrgan Notes direct link



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-02-12 11:07



The Pistons in the jOrgan "Christie" disposition are configured with the following details:



Reference TO: Stops, Couplers, Trems you want to be controlled by this Piston (All if you want

a General Stop, a selected Division if you want Divisional)



Reference FROM: the SET Element, a Connector Element, the Console Element, a Regulator Element,

a Group Element



The SET Element is how combinations are saved

The Connector Element is how MIDI messages trigger the function

The Console Element shows the Piston on the jOrgan "Console"

The Regulator Element somehow manages indication of active Piston (but I don't remember the

details)

The Group Element is a folder to keep things tidy in the Element list



Messages: Deactivate - equal 207, equal 1, equal 0

Activate - equal 207, equal 1, equal 0



I am not sure if it was this function in particular, but in some message cases the Deactivate

Message must be above the Activate Message.



Looking at this message in MidiOx (display decimal) it shows exactly what needs to be addressed

in jOrgan:

Status 207 PC (Program Change), Channel: 16, data 1: 1, data 2: ---



If I look at this in the jOrgan Monitor, it shows:

Channel: 15, Status: 192, data 1: 1, data 2: 0

This is jOrgan version 3.21.1 (64 bit).

The Channel number displayed is off by 1 meaning it is 0 based and not 1 based.

The Status 192, (add 15, the channel number, to get 207)

The data 1 and data 2 values agree with MidiOx



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-12 14:49



On 2024-02-12 08:29, alex stone wrote: “I can now insert notes on a dedicated organ data

track that corresponds with General Pistons. So c-1 is now GP1, c#-1 is now GP2, and so on.

It works, and does so reliably (at least for now).”



Alex,



That is heartening, to hear of your success. It has been a pleasure, and a challenge,

to work with you on this part of your jOrgan journey. Do not hesitate to return to the

thread if the need arises.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-12 20:17 +28



Rick, thank you for this. Jorgan notes, at first glance, is probably the document

I should have read first.



Regards,

Alex.



On 2/12/24 00:14, RickW wrote:

For an even deeper "nuts & bolts" explanation of the deep workings of jOrgan, Bruce

Miles - jOrgan Notes is important reading.”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-12 20:40



Thanks John.



On 2/12/24 04:49, JohnR wrote: “Alex,

That is heartening, to hear of your success.”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-12 20:43



Thanks again Rick.



A question. Is there any case where the activate message should be above the deactivate

message? If not, it seems to be sensible to always put the deactivate message first.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-13 12:34



On 2024-02-13 03:07, alex stone wrote: “Now I have Muse4 responding correctly to program

change messages, coupled to general pistons.



Alex,

Your reports get better and better!



However, already there are a few loose ends, and the "former engineer" in me finds that

rather intolerable.



Rick has already questioned why I had the General pistons referencing TO all the other

General pistons being used. Rightly so. It is not usual to do that. However, jOrgan

certainly permitted it. In my tests, during which I was trying to work out a way forward,

once I activated a piston by sending a MIDI message (not by clicking on it), it showed

the "activated" image, and from then on could not be used again to activate its

designated stops. Referencing TO the other General pistons avoided this problem, because

the moment I activated any other General piston, it deactivated the piston in question.



Now jOrgan pistons (officially called "Combinations") don't normally stay activated. They

show the activated image very briefly and then return to their normal appearance. The only

MIDI messages I could could send were, as far as I am aware, from a MIDI keyboard. That

is, Note ON or Note OFF messages. This may have caused the problematic behaviour in my

case. It may not have happened for you, as you were sending Program Change messages. Have

you deleted those references TO the other General pistons? (It has occurred to me that

having them there may have been the reason for that very erratic behaviour of the stops

in the video.)



Two other things I am wondering about is why you have added two identical Activate messages

to each General piston, and why you have used "trigger" as the message identifier in the

case of the General Cancel. "Trigger" is not one of the messages allowed when you try to

add a message. (If you are wondering what "Eingang" means, Google told me it is the German

word for "input".)



Best wishes,

JohnR



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-02-13 14:11

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024, 2:12 am alex stone wrote: "in my last post I added a section

at the end for General Cancel that read as three lines of activate."



Glad to hear you have success.



Regards

Rick





______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-13 19:26



On 2/13/24 02:34, john.reimer@exemail.com.au wrote: “Alex, Your reports get better and better!



Hi John.



Where do I begin?



In the Qtractor midi sequencer, i use notes (C0-A#0) to select pistons. This works, where

in Qtractor I could not get it to use program changes, because of the way it's constructed

as a program. Not all sequencers are created equal, and what works on one doesn't always

work on another. You can say "Midi is Midi", but design choices do affect the way midi is

handled.



In Muse4, the reverse is true. All my efforts to encourage Muse4 to use notes (because they

send note on/note off messages) were in vain, because where Jorgan would accept me sending

notes in Qtractor, precisely because Qtractor's editor structure allows that, in the

vertical keyboard that runs north to south in the editor itself.



Muse4's vertical keyboard doesn't respond the same way, it's more limited. You can click on

each note and it will sound, if connected to a sound source, but that's it. Qtractor is more

complex and inclusive by design.



I have deleted the combined piston references you suggested, as i think they were in conflict

with the sequencer, and since removing them, the chaos stopped.



In the sequencer element for the pistons, they're already all listed, so I suspect (and

remember I'm really new at all this) adding all the pistons referencing each other just added

another layer of complexity that the sequencer was fighting with. I'm not sure if this

completely true, or if i'm on the right track, but when the references were removed from each

piston, the chaos stopped. That's my reality here.



In hardware keyboards, the way midi is handled is almost universal, because it has to be.

It's a mechanical device specifically designed to transmit midi messages according to the midi

protocol (V1).



Sequencers are something else again, and design decisions, particularly at UI level are more

arbitrary. That's why we have so many, all doing their own thing.



I'm going to test Reaper today. A fine sequencer, but it too has it's quirks, and i'll need to

figure out what they are. Nothing has worked as yet.



I'm going to test the trigger messages again today, and if i swap those messages for activate

messages, and it works (the most important part of all this) then I may leave it that way.



When I entered only 1 activate message to represent both MSB and LSB banks (H-bank and L-Bank),

it didn't work. Jorgan's excellent monitor showed three distinct messages, and when I hovered

over each, the tooltip showed me it had acknowledged the two banks were treated as separate

messages, even though the data was the same. That's why I added them, and, well, it works,

which is what I wanted.



A question for you, as you keep referring to what is and isn't possible. Is there an official

document or source for Jorgan that lists all the "can and can't do's" for each element,

reference, activate, deactivate, trigger, etc? Data like "why is 192 an internal Jorgan

designation?"



Or are we all reliant on experience, something I'm currently short of when it comes to this

fine program?



I appreciate all the help i'm getting, and after 4 days (is that all?) i'm enjoying marrying

up Jorgan with an orchestra, and writing music for them both in the same sequencer.



A document of definitions, and do's and don'ts, would go a long way to giving me a bigger

picture, without having to pester you and others by asking what must seem like really basic

questions in here all the time.



One more thing. Can I configure Jorgan to use Jack midi, or is that not possible? There's no

mention of jack midi anywhere in the documents i've perused so far, so i'm assuming it's

likely not, at this moment in time.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-13 19:27



On 2/13/24 04:11, RickW wrote: "Glad to hear you have success."



Thanks Rick. Your help and instruction was, and is, much appreciated.



I may not have run out of dumb questions just yet, but i'll try and keep the noise down.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-02-13 19:50



Hi everyone,



What I always struggled with in such help documents is the lack of a systematic approach.

Somehow they all seem to assume the reader has some knowledge already. I find this

assumption ridiculous as those who have some knowledge often do not need to consult these

help documents!



What I would expect to see is (a) what steps are needed and (b) a clear example of how that

feature is used. (c) Diagrams or better still photos where possible will go a long way -

a picture is worth more than a thousand words.



To give a crude (and rather incomplete) example:



Stops (adding a stop)

jOrgan > Construct mode (third icon on the menu bar)

Elements Windows > 3+icon (add element) > select Stop (by scrolling down) > click next

Select ..... (ref to).... > click next

Select ..... (ref from) .... > click Finish



Messages (open from menu if not already visible):

...... or None (if these do not apply)



Skin (open from menu if not already visible):

select image.....



Additional information:

Problems (open window from menu)

etc etc



Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Jonathan Aquilina on 2024-02-13 19:58



Good Morning Mark,



This might be something I could help with but my time right now is very limited given

the business I have been working on starting and growing has taken a shift in a different

and positive direction.



Documentation is something i am very good at doing. Simple documentation and to the point

with step by step screenshots.



I am not sure how I can help in this capacity at this time.



Regards,

Jonathan Aquilina

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-13 20:22



On 2024-02-13 19:26, alex stone wrote: "I have deleted the combined piston references

you suggested, as i think they were in conflict with the sequencer, and since removing

them, the chaos stopped."



Alex,

Thank you for your very informative post. It satisfies all the concerns I had, and I

shall wait with interest to hear which message type you end up with for the General

Cancel. I suspect that with the deletion of those inter-piston references, it can be

treated in exactly the same fashion as all the others.



There are three main sources of technical information about jOrgan. You have already

been using Bill Skees' mammoth work, and also the late Bruce Miles' daunting Notes on

jOrgan. The third is the jOrgan InfoBase, which is a collection of html pages conveying,

in the first instance, the information that was in the "jOrgan MediaWiki", most of it

supplied by Sven. For various regrettable reasons we lost the use of that resource.

However, I had suspected that trouble was in the winds, and I had taken the trouble to

download the content in about 120 html pages. I slowly add more content, and I welcome

suggestions for changes or additions, but very little comes in. Here is the main entry

to the InfoBase:

https://jorgan.info/base/Index.html



One particular source of help is found in a number of contributed articles on the

Tutorials page.



I assume that you are familiar with my jORGAN DISCOVERY website, meant for new users of jOrgan:

https://jorgan.info



Regarding jOrgan working with jack, it certainly can and does work well. I am using it in my

home console installation, which is Linux (the RPi variety). Jack allows me to use the

excellent stand-alone Linux reverb program, zita-rev1 (I think I got it right). I have never

used the jackMIDI, but I would think that Marc-Paul would be an authority on that.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-02-13 20:30



On 13/02/2024 09:58, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: "This might be something I could help with but

my time right now is very limited"





Well, if you cannot it is pointless offering...... If one is hungry, it will not help just

to think of food!



If and when you have time, prepare some documentation that I would be happy to review. However

there are others who will be much more able to contribute further based on their much more

extensive knowledge. For instance, if you add details of messages that need to be inserted,

there is no way I could detect any errors eg a wrong number or missing instructions. I will

be able to identify an issue if I refer to the document and follow the steps and fail to get

what I expect to achieve. Then yes.... and I will report the issue. I can help by checking the

layout and identifying and correcting typographical errors and ensure that the presentation is

what it ought to be.



You have to do it in your own good time, step by step and release it when you think you have

gone through everything. Adding data to John Reimer's info can serve as a foundation.... just

add the steps and examples so that the descriptions make sense to the noobs. Surprise us with

a document not tease us with your willingness or potentials. We are very hungry..... get us a

double burger - don't just tell us what's on a McDonald menu but you don't have transport to

fetch the goodies!



Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From alex stone on 2024-02-13 20:32



On 2/13/24 10:22, JohnR wrote:

"Regarding jOrgan working with jack, it certainly can and does work well."





Hi John,



Yes I'm aware of Jack audio, i've been using it for years, and standalone fluidsynth with

jackmidi as well, when required.



Jackmidi is sample accurate when it comes to timing, and when the user is running a large

template, with a complete orchestra, for example, that timing becomes more critical.



Alex.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Roy Radford on 2024-02-13 21:42



Hi, John,



I'm very much out of touch these days, haven't actually done anything to

jOrgan for several years but I seem to recall that, as you suggest,

General Cancel is nothing special, just another Combination which had all

stops off last time the related Set button was pressed. The reference to

the Set button may be deleted after General Cancel is set, to avoid

accidentally overwriting it.



Have fun,



Roy. (UK)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-14 12:19



Hi Roy,

Thanks for the confirmation, and the advice.



Best wishes,

John______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*















































jOrgan and a DAW, the next level...

From alex stone on 2024-02-14 02:31______



Having got general pistons working in Qtractor, Muse4, and now Reaper, with assigned and

reliably repeatable connections across Sequencer and Jorgan restarts (each sequencer jorgan

instance has its own disposition, copied and renamed specifically), I turned my attention

to divisional pistons. There are 5 each for the ECO, and i simply replicated the three

activate lines for each piston, changing the PC where appropriate.



It works.



So as well as 10 options for General Pistons, I can now make a further 5 changes within

each division, for that "special" occasion where I might need another tone or sound.



The pistons switch without a problem, as for General pistons, although, on this modest test

computer, it takes a moment, at least visually. And that makes me wonder if each track

should have its own data track to handle it's own pistons. (The data port is separate from

the "notes" port for the 5 divisions.)



I'll modify the copies I have for each sequencer, run jOrgan headless, to test that aspect

of Jorgan, and then have a think about stops.



Alex.______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*













































Quick Raspberry Pi question



From John Kuhns on 2024-02-28 11:27



Hello All,



It's been a while since I've been on here or involved with jOrgan at all, sadly. I originally

made a disposition for my church when their organ failed. My wife is an organist, and she has

since accepted a position at a new church.



The new church has a medium sized pipe organ controlled by the ICS-4000 system from Peterson

Electro-Musical. In short, I'm adding a few ranks to it via MIDI out and jOrgan; chimes and a

few solo stops.



My biggest struggle has been getting JACK to run properly, at this point I've fallen back to

Pulseaudio. I was pretty familiar with JACK previously, but on the Pi it seems to be extremely

touchy, frequently crashing the whole system.



I'm running jOrgan 4.2 for the Pi on MX Linux 23. Trying to get the best sound quality, not much

luck so far. Lots of weird artifacts that aren't there when I run the same disposition on a very

old Intel laptop running AV Linux, which is an MX Linux distro tailored to audio-video production

and just using the headphone jack on this gives me beautiful sound. I've tried a cheap external

soundcard, the headphone jack on the Pi, and HDMI out through a monitor's headphone jack, although

I expect the monitor may have a faulty jack since it's internal speakers sound pretty good, though

very soft so hard to be sure.



I've played with everything I can think of, frames, buffers, buffer-size, etc. Tailored my

soundfonts down to just what I need, one is 5M, the other is 68M.



I'm hoping someone will point me to a possible solution. I'm open to anything, changing the OS,

buying hardware, whatever.



Thanks,

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-28 17:02



On 2024-02-28 11:27, John Kuhns wrote: "Hello All,

It's been a while since I've been on here or involved with jOrgan at all, sadly."



Hi John,



Welcome back!



For what it's worth, I'm using the RPi 4B as my desktop, and the 64-bit RPi OS. I've been

using jOrgan version 4.1 very successfully, with audio driver pulseaudio and just the normal

audio output jack. I find the sound quite reasonable. YouTube sounds good, too.



After reading your post, I installed jOrgan 4.2 instead, but got "Fluidsynth failure" for no

apparent reason. So I restored version 4.1 and things are back to normal. It seems clear to

me that what I am hearing is the Fluidsynth 2 reverb, so I am at a loss as to what the

difference is between jOrgan 4.1 and 4.2, except that for me 4.2 has that Fluidsynth failure!



I don't know how to get jackd working, although clearly it is installed. Trying to use jack

as the audio driver gives a hopeless sound.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-02-28 19:42



On 2024-02-28 17:02, JohnR wrote:"After reading your post, I installed jOrgan 4.2 instead,

but got 'Fluidsynth failure' for no apparent reason."



Here is the error log which was generated. It doesn't seem to mention Fluidsynth.



"Feb 28, 2024 4:47:30 PM jorgan.Version log

INFO: jOrgan null

os.arch = aarch64

os.name = Linux

os.version = 6.1.21-v8+

java.home = /usr/lib/jvm/java-11-openjdk-arm64

java.version = 11.0.22

java.runtime.name = OpenJDK Runtime Environment

java.runtime.version = 11.0.22+7-post-Debian-1deb11u1

user.dir = /home/john

user.home = /home/john

user.country = US

user.language = en

user.name = john

Feb 28, 2024 4:47:31 PM jorgan.gui.LAF install

INFO: setting look and feel 'javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel'

Feb 28, 2024 4:47:41 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_OPEN_FILE action is not supported on the current platform!

Feb 28, 2024 4:47:41 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_QUIT_HANDLER action is not supported on the current platform!

Feb 28, 2024 4:47:41 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_PREFERENCES action is not supported on the current platform!

Feb 28, 2024 4:47:41 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_ABOUT action is not supported on the current platform!"



Can anyone interpret this?



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Don Anderson on 2024-02-28 23:52



John,

I have been using pi4 and now 5 with Jack very successfully for at least 2 years and

will be happy to help. It will have to be next week though because I am away and it is

too difficult typing on my phone.

Don.



On Feb. 27, 2024 7:27 p.m., John Kuhns wrote:"Hello All,

It's been a while since I've been on here or involved with jOrgan at all, sadly. I originally

made a disposition for my church when their organ failed. My wife is an organist, and she has

since accepted a position at a new church."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-02-28 23:55



Hi John, good to see such a quick response, also good to see you're still active. I'm also

running on a RPI 4b, using an Uno USB to midi adapter, 2 details I left out. I'll get you a

list of everything I installed to get 4.2 running with Fluidsynth, but my real job is going

to keep me busy today.



John



On Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 1:03 AM JohnR wrote: "For what it's worth, I'm using the RPi 4B as my

desktop, and the 64-bit RPi OS."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-02-28 23:57



Don,



Great news! I'm not in a super hurry and I'm busy with other things for the next few days anyway.



Thanks,

John



On Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 7:53 AM Don Anderson wrote:"John, I have been using pi4 and now 5 with Jack

very successfully for at least 2 years and will be happy to help."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-02 13:20



On 2024-02-28 17:02, JohnR wrote: "I don't know how to get jackd working"



Just to bring this up to date, I now have no trouble getting jackd to work (I had forgotten

about qjackctl), but the jOrgan sound is still awful. This is using jack as the audio driver

for Fluidsynth. Pulseaudio restores the sound, if jackd is turned off. Perhaps I need help

with the jackd settings.



I might add that with the RPi 3B which I have been using on my home console for many years,

along with jackd and the zita-rev1 reverb, there have been no problems.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-02 13:53



I think I have an answer for you! On the advanced settings tab for QJackCtl, choose hw:

Headphone and set the input and output channels to 2, it seems to default to 8! That seems

to fix everything for me. You will need to restart jOrgan afterwards with JACK still running,

but it makes a world of difference for me.



With my setup I think Pipewire is the main issue I'm seeing. I don't think I necessarily have

the right version of Pipewire and/or JACK. I've looked at it a bit, but have been busy with

work over the past few days.



Good luck!

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-03 11:43



On 2024-03-02 13:53, John Kuhns wrote: "I think I have an answer for you! On the advanced

settings tab for QJackCtl, choose ... "



Hi John,



Many thanks!



I have followed your suggestions closely, and I find that the bad sound is the same whatever

changes I make. Fortunately my current set-up using jOrgan 4.1 (for RPi 64-bit) with audio

driver pulseaudio is giving excellent results. But I didn't get that good result with

pulseaudio using jOrgan 4.2. It seems that each user has to find and use whatever solution

works for them! I feel uneasy about no one ready solution which is open to everyone.



I know nothing about Pipewire, but the first web-page I looked at from a Google search was this:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PipeWire



Perhaps you are already familiar with this informative page. Assuming you solve your current

issues with Pipewire/Jack, what advantages are you seeking in bringing Pipewire into the mix?



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-03 23:49



Pipewire is the future, it replaces both Pulseaudio and JACK. I guess I just like to keep

up to date. I have learned more and now have jOrgan running with pw-jack, which uses

nothing but pipewire, no JACK at all. I'm impressed with performance so far. I bought

a cheap Innomaker HiFi DAC hat, but can't get it to work yet.



On your issue with JACK, it's almost definitely that JACK is seeing 8 output ports for the

hw: Headphone. You can verify that in the Graph in QJackCtl. I was getting very weird sounds

until I restricted it to 2 input and 2 output ports. Had no luck specifying it as output only,

had to say it was a duplex device. JACK is great, I think there is just some bad code in the

Pi kernel when it comes to audio hardware.



John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Don Anderson on 2024-03-04 03:30



jOrgan 4.2 uses Fluidsynth v.3 which is used with Pi5/Bookworm OS whereas jOrgan 4.1 uses

Fluidsynth v.2.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-04 16:00



Hi Don,



Thank you for that reminder. Sven announced the 4.2 for RPi in a post, which was the second-last

post to the Mailing List last year. Your reply expressing thanks and success in using it was the

last post.



Somehow this had passed me by. I like to think that it was due to the time of the year, but it's

more likely it was my ageing memory and lack of concentration. :-)



I have in this thread reported on getting bad sound with jack as audio driver in the

jOrgan 4.1 Fluidsynth Properties, but getting excellent sound using pulseaudio. (So in view of

your post, I reinstalled jOrgan 4.2 and tried again. As before, I got "Fluidsynth failure",

even after quitting jackd, which I had no difficulty starting. There was no drop-down list

offering me alternative drivers.



I looked at the error log, and it was similar to what I gave

earlier in this thread, but there was much more in addition. Here it is:



Mar 04, 2024 3:15:00 PM jorgan.Version log

INFO: jOrgan null

os.arch = aarch64

os.name = Linux

os.version = 6.1.21-v8+

java.home = /usr/lib/jvm/java-11-openjdk-arm64

java.version = 11.0.22

java.runtime.name = OpenJDK Runtime Environment

java.runtime.version = 11.0.22+7-post-Debian-1deb11u1

user.dir = /home/john

user.home = /home/john

user.country = US

user.language = en

user.name = john

Mar 04, 2024 3:15:01 PM jorgan.gui.LAF install

INFO: setting look and feel 'javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel'

Mar 04, 2024 3:15:07 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_OPEN_FILE action is not supported on the current platform!

Mar 04, 2024 3:15:07 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_QUIT_HANDLER action is not supported on the current platform!

Mar 04, 2024 3:15:07 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_PREFERENCES action is not supported on the current platform!

Mar 04, 2024 3:15:07 PM jorgan.gui.OrganFrame withDesktop

WARNING: The APP_ABOUT action is not supported on the current platform!

Mar 04, 2024 3:15:10 PM jorgan.fluidsynth.Fluidsynth <clinit>

INFO: native failure

java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /usr/lib/jorgan/lib/libfluidsynthJNI.so: libfluidsynth.so.3:

cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

at java.base/java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.load0(Native Method)

at java.base/java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.load(ClassLoader.java:2450)

at java.base/java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:2506)

at java.base/java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary0(ClassLoader.java:2705)

at java.base/java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:2635)

at java.base/java.lang.Runtime.load0(Runtime.java:768)

at java.base/java.lang.System.load(System.java:1854)

at jorgan.util.NativeUtils.load(NativeUtils.java:54)

at jorgan.util.NativeUtils.load(NativeUtils.java:43)

at jorgan.fluidsynth.Fluidsynth.<clinit>(Fluidsynth.java:211)

at jorgan.fluidsynth.play.FluidsynthSoundPlayer.createSynth(FluidsynthSoundPlayer.java:116)

at jorgan.fluidsynth.play.FluidsynthSoundPlayer.update(FluidsynthSoundPlayer.java:58)

at jorgan.play.OrganPlay.createPlayer(OrganPlay.java:267)

at jorgan.play.OrganPlay.<init>(OrganPlay.java:100)

at jorgan.play.OrganPlaySessionProvider$1.<init>(OrganPlaySessionProvider.java:45)

at jorgan.play.OrganPlaySessionProvider.create(OrganPlaySessionProvider.java:44)

at jorgan.session.spi.SessionRegistry.create(SessionRegistry.java:36)

at jorgan.session.OrganSession.lookup(OrganSession.java:208)

at jorgan.play.OrganPlaySessionProvider.init(OrganPlaySessionProvider.java:36)

at jorgan.session.spi.SessionRegistry.init(SessionRegistry.java:29)

at jorgan.session.OrganSession.<init>(OrganSession.java:98)

at jorgan.gui.OrganFrame.openOrgan(OrganFrame.java:331)

at jorgan.gui.GUI$FileInit.run(GUI.java:198)

at java.desktop/java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(InvocationEvent.java:303)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(EventQueue.java:770)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(EventQueue.java:721)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventQueue$4.run(EventQueue.java:715)

at java.base/java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)

at java.base/java.security.ProtectionDomain$JavaSecurityAccessImpl.doIntersectionPrivilege

(ProtectionDomain.java:85)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:740)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(EventDispatchThread.java:203)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(EventDispatchThread.java:124)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java:113)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:109)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:101)

at java.desktop/java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:90)



After pasting this error log here, I checked what version of Fluidsynth is installed.

It was 2.1.7, so I think this explains why jOrgan 4.1 is working for me, at least with

pulseaudio. It doesn't explain why I have bad sound with jackd (and with jack as audio

driver). But it does explain why jOrgan 4.2 is not working for me. I reinstalled

Fluidsynth, and expected it would be Fluidsynth Version 3, but no, it was 2.1.7 again.

Perhaps this means that the OS I have is not the latest RaspiOS (64-bit). However, it

is certainly 64-bit.



Any suggestions?

Should I try to install Fluidsynth version 3? If so, how do I avoid it being Version 2.1.7?



It's clear that it's important for me to have success with jOrgan 4.2 for RPi, for I need to

update the RPi install details on the jORGAN DISCOVERY website.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Don Anderson on 2024-03-04 23:52



Hi John,

I always have installed Synaptic to check what is installed and what is not. When I started

fresh with Bookworm I noticed that only the new Fluidsynth v.3 was available but jOrgan 4.1

didn't work with it so Sven was kind enough to give us 4.2 for it right away.

I hope Synaptic helps.

Don

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-05 02:43



Thanks, Don. MX Linux comes with Synaptic installed, but I've just got back into jOrgan and

Linux sound after about 7 years, so there's a bit of a learning curve: never even heard of

Pipewire before last week!



I prefer MX and in particular the AV Linux distro built on top of MX with all the creative

apps I need already included. The current MX Raspberry Pi image is pretty impressive, check

it out some time. I typically do all development on a laptop with AV, which I will upgrade

shortly so that I'm using Debian 12 and Pipewire during development. So far I'm pretty

impressed with Pipewire, but I'm no professional for sure.



I'm working on a new skin and that's still a bit of a pain to do. I may get motivated to add

skin editing features right into jOrgan. About 10 years ago I made a few extensions to jOrgan:

a keystroke component (allows sending QWERTY key strokes from a console, think F11) a recorder

replacement that could cycle through a playlist, and a webcam viewer that allowed my wife to

see the progress of a wedding party right from the organ console. They're all probably footnotes

at this point in time.



Thanks again!

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Don Anderson on 2024-03-05 04:27



John,

I have used your keystroke a lot the last few years. Thanks for it. I have never looked at

pipewire but it sounds very good. Tomorrow I am back from vacation in Cuba so will be able

to write more when not typing on my phone.



Don

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-05 05:00



Gotcha, thought maybe you were back already. Enjoy the weather and safe travels!



John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-03-05 10:03



Fluidsynth latest version is 2.3 not 3.... 2.3.4 to be exact.



Graham Goode has just created the libraries for Windows 64x and these work for jOrgan 4.0 beta1.



Regards

Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-05 12:04



On 2024-03-05 10:03, Dr. Mark Bugeja MD wrote:

Fluidsynth latest version is 2.3 not 3.... 2.3.4 to be exact.



Hi Mark,



Fluidsynth 2.3.4 is a version to be used with Windows. This current thread has in mind

Fluidsynth versions intended for use with the Raspberry Pi OS. Just another complication

we need to take in our stride.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-03-05 12:06

Even for these the highest version number I saw was 2.3.4



On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 at 02:04, JohnR wrote:

"This current thread has in mind Fluidsynth versions intended for use with the

Raspberry Pi OS."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-05 12:31



On 2024-03-05 12:06, Mark Bugeja wrote:

"Even for these the highest version number I saw was 2.3.4"



Hi Mark,



I agree. Perhaps "Fluidsynth Version 3" is a shorthand way of referring to what version

of Fluidsynth 2 the RPi 5 OS is installing by default. I am using RPi 4B, and the version

for it being installed by default is still 2.1.7 . Both John Kuhns and Don Anderson are

now using RPi 5.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-03-05 12:37



Well just in case it is good to point others to the correct version number accurately

if one is not to be sent on a wild goose chase for a version that does not exist. Graham

Goode has done us a big favour in the midst of his busy schedule to create an updated

Fluidsynth that works and he has worked on the latest which he quotes as 2.3.4 as well,

admittingly in reference to windows 64x.



On Tue, 05 Mar 2024 at 02:32, JohnR wrote:

"Perhaps 'Fluidsynth Version 3' is a shorthand way of referring to what version of Fluidsynth 2

the RPi 5 OS is installing by default."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-05 12:51



I'm actually using a 4B from 2018, but with a very up to date distribution of Linux. Don is

on vacation in Cuba, was maybe going by memory and typing on his phone, regardless the version

of Fluidsynth on my system is 2.3.4.



John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-03-05 13:41



Thanks for the clarification. Now I can go to sleep peacefully and have sweet dreams....! 😂

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-05 21:43



On 2024-03-05 02:43, John Kuhns wrote:

"About 10 years ago I made a few extensions to jOrgan: a keystroke

component (allows sending QWERTY key strokes from a console, think

F11) a recorder replacement that could cycle through a playlist ... "



Hi John,



I too have found these very useful. I use the keystroke program on my home console with

its two touchscreens. I used it and the recorder replacement on the jOrgan installation

I put in my local church, the latter program to be used when no organist was available.

It has never had to be used. The service using the organ was never restarted after COVID,

but I shall spare you the details.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-05 23:57



John,



Glad to be of some help!



John______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*















































Fluidsynth 2.3.4 PortAudio ALL build for Windows jOrgan 4.0 64-bit users



From Graham Goode on 2024-03-06 03:21



Hi,



I made time to compile the latest PortAudio and Fluidsyth versions for

our Windows users. This is for jOrgan 4.0 64-bit only. I've tested it

on my two PCs and Mark has tested it on his, so I hope it works for

you.



You can download this Fluidsynth extension from:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3lzoxsbgvw61vb13bj059/fluidsynth2.3.4.64-bit-port

audio-all.zip?rlkey=zd9aqjn53dfuby2d1uxkim7qo&dl=0



This will give you ASIO, WASAPI, WDM-KS, and the DSound driver options

under the PortAudio driver. See the info page for general information

about using Fluidsynth extensions:

https://jorgan.info/base/i/Instructions_on_using_the_PortAudio_driver_in_the_

Fluidsynth_Extension.html



@Sven I'm happy for you to upload the ZIP file to Sourceforge if you

want to as well.



Kind regards,

GrahamG

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-10 12:20



On 2024-03-06 03:21, Graham Goode wrote: "I made time to compile the latest PortAudio and Fluidsyth versions for

our Windows users. This is for jOrgan 4.0 64-bit only."



Hi Graham,



Thank you for making the time available and for putting in the big effort involved.



I have tested it on an "entry-level" Windows 10 laptop, and can verify that the various options are all there. The only

one I did not actually test was the WMKD (or whatever it is).



I spent a lot of time testing it with Jack for Windows. Getting Jack to start can be quite a challenge! I think this may

be a successful order of events:

1. Launch ASIO4ALL

2. Launch Jack using Qjackctl

3. Run jOrgan



I was not altogether happy with ASIO4ALL. The latest version ( ... 15) does not seem to provide a user-window to allow

adjustment of settings. One Web-page I saw draws attention to this, and recommends version 14. However, another web-page

says that it does not work. I certainly got version 14 to work in a fashion, but when I tried to render the normal audio

output jack inactive and to make a small but good USB "soundcard" active, it didn't seem to achieve that. Are there any

successful alternatives to using ASIO4ALL?



Best wishes,

JohnR______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*





















































j3.20 Stiehr-Mockers 2.0 not importing to version 4x jOrgan



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-07 12:19



Greetings All:



Paul Stratman’s j3.20 Stiehr-Mockers works perfectly in jOrgan 3x. When I open it in jOrgan 4x the GO

manual sounds just growl softly. The Pedal and Positif work fine.



This happens on the PC and Rpi the same.



I created a disposition to test and get the same results.



I am not sure where to start troubleshooting this problem. I’d love to have some ideas.



Cheers

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-03-07 14:15



Hi Marc.... you may need to set the buffers settings and size (File > Customize > next > next > next).

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-08 03:39



Dr. Mark...

Thank you so much for the suggestion. I had already tried that to no avail.



I have noticed that with stops on the G.O. The top notes on the manual sound as if we are playing the

bottom of the manual and go down from there. Very odd.



Thanks

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Jeremy Korevaar on 2024-03-08 03:53



Hi Marc,



You may want to try adjusting the transpose factor in the Customizer for the GO by a factor of 12. It could

be that the disposition is transposing the voicing down an octave or two? Not sure if its the solution but

might be worth a shot.



Cheers,

Jeremy

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-10 10:24



Resolution to Issue & Wish List for Sven:



After months of multiple OS troubleshooting… it suddenly dawned on me that the issue had to be FluidSynth and not jOrgan.

Graham Goode’s new backend clears up the issue. (Windows 11)



To RESTATE the issue: When pulling in the 3.20 Stiehr-Mockers 2.0 to version 4x of jOrgan the G.O. manual (Great) won’t

sound correctly. (Although the extra noises do sound.) If I create a small definition in jOrgan4x the G.O stops won’t

function correctly. Going back to jOrgan 3x and everything works fine.



I have the SAME issue with the Rpi 4B. I have no idea what to do to fix this issue in Raspbian.

I am getting ready to setup a Rpi 5 and I will report on my results as soon as I can.



Cheers

Marc-Paul______MOST RECENT POST IN THE THREAD

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

















































jOrgan 4.2 on RPi 5 running Bookworm



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-12 15:23



Greetings to all:



I am happy to report that the build of an RPi 5 with a SSD was easier than ever.

I preloaded the SSD with Bookworm and basically turned it on.



I put in my networked midi software. Downloaded jOrgan 4.2. Did the usual configuration

and it played the first time. Because there is no headphone jack, I played it thru the

HDMI interface.



Then I plugged in a USB Creative SoundBlaster soundcard and changed the default sound in

Bookworm and it played thru the Creative card.



I started Jack and used my usual a2jmidid command line to see if it would create ports

and it did. Qsynth booted up also.



Tomorrow I will use the procedure I have previously to achieve multi-channel audio. This

particular SoundBlaster has 3 stereo outs.



Additionally, the j3.20_Stiehr-Mockers_2.0 from Paul Stratman works perfectly so far.



This is a GREAT step forward for the RPi users.



Many more tests to come



Cheers

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*















































Problem with jOrgan 4.2 for RPi 4B (64-bit)



From JohnR on 2024-03-10 16.33



Hi all,



A problem has developed with my jOrgan 4.2 for RPi 4B (64-bit). I am

assuming that the problem has not been there since I started to use it.

This is installed in the same RPi 4B I use as a Desktop. I uninstalled

jOrgan 4.2 and then reinstalled it, using the same .deb file which was

still in my Downloads folder. The problem remains.



In Construct mode, jOrgan is no longer showing the dropdown boxes which

allow one to change the audio driver and the audio device in the

Fluidsynth Properties View. I needed to make this change in a number of

dispositions which I have on a USB stick, and which I had been using to

test Graham Goode's new Windows backend. The problem remained on all

those dispositions.



To add to my issues, I managed to break the little adaptor which my

monitor plug needs to fit into the tiny socket on the RPi 4B. So I will



need to buy a new one. In the meantime, I have brought my RPi 3B+

"desktop" back into service. What is relevant to the problem is that it

had no trouble allowing me to change back the Fluidsynth Properties in

those dispositions.



Is anyone able to reproduce this problem with the RPi 4B and suggest a

solution?



Best wishes,

JohnR



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Don Anderson on 2024-03-11 1.50



Hi John,



I haven't seen this problem on 4.2...yet. If you download a new copy I

wonder if it will be ok. We are not yet building organs using jOrgan 4.2

and Bookworm even though I have been working with it on my own with no

problems. One of my sons thinks it is too risky to switch to Bookworm

and jOrgan 4.2 since everything is working so well now but I have been

disagreeing with him. It will be good to know if the problem you are

finding is something that needs to be fixed. A friend and former

employee is using Pi5 as his desktop all day long and loves it. My only

complaint with Pi4b and 400 is that the graphics are slow to respond on

touch screen organs. Evidently that is because of the way it is done in

jOrgan more than anything but with the faster graphics of Pi5 it seems

much better.



I'll be interested to see if you find a solution.



Don.



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-12 9:23



Hey JohnR:



I did as you did on a RPi 4B. Uninstalled jOrgan 4.1 and installed 4.2. I

have the same result... no "driver" showing.



I tried loading Bookworm on the RPi 4B and had limited success. My notion

is that the 4B is just not powerfull enough for Bookworm. Both OS's were

running off of SSD's. Simple to just plug in another drive and bootup the

RPi.



So I am building a RPi 5 and will report the result. I was of the opinion

the jOrgan 4.2 was for Bookworm on the RPi 5. I certainly could be

mistaken.



Cheers

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Kuhns on 2024-03-12 10:21



I found that jOrgan 4.2 on a Pi 4b with MX 23.2, Pipewire, no JACK, no Alsa, and no Pulse works great.

I'm not using huge soundfonts, not needed in my case. Trying to mix in JACK with Alsa and/or Pulse gave

me various weird issues. At one point I uninstalled Pipewire and went with JACK, Pulse and Alsa, worked

fine but had trouble accessing all the audio output ports. Also seeing snappy response on a cheap 7"

touchscreen. No over clocking, either. So I guess I'd suggest you give MX Linux a try, it's a solid distro.



One thing that was giving me grief at one point was Fluidsynth loading in the background at startup and

grabbing my MIDI interface. Try ps aux | grep fluid and kill Fluidsynth if it did start before starting up

jOrgan. I can't recall exactly how I resolved that issue, I think it went away as I transitioned fully to Pipewire.



I am in an awkward position, the only Pi I own is now permanently installed in a church 20 miles from my home,

so I cannot easily give any more information or test anything out. I do know I had to repackage the 4.2 DEB file

from sourceforge, if I can find it I'll put it on Dropbox, I may have deleted it after installing.



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2023-03-14 15:20



Don, Marc-Paul and John K,



Thank you for your replies. Not long after I sent my initial post, I

realised that the reason for my difficulty was probably that the jOrgan

4.2 is meant for the RPi5, and I am using an RPi 4B.



I am having computer problems at the moment, and this has prevented me

from seeing your posts at first. It has also prevented me from going

back to jOrgan 4.1 on the RPi 4B and checking it all out.



A complicating factor is that the Mailing List is not sending me posts,

but I can send to the List. The only reason I knew about your replies is

that I have a "backup" membership of the Mailing List using another

email account I have (different username and domain name). I will have

to clear up the matter when I finally get my RPi 4B back working. I am

waiting on an HDMI adaptor plug from the supplier. The one I first

ordered was the wrong one - all because of confusing statements on the

supplier's website. I queried it when ordering, and their employee

advised me the wrong way! So it seems that he was confused also.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD















































Bruce Miles' Cinema Organ



From JohnR on 2024-03-21 20:35



On 2024-03-21 18:30, Brian Sweetnam wrote:

"Good morning all,



I am trying to get the Bruce Miles sound font incorporated into my disposition. This is the

note in the sound font:

'Cinema Organ' version c102 (includes stops and combinations) for general use. Install in

Bank 22. See www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk for supporting files.



I think Bruce passed away a couple of years back, and his website is no longer active or

available. Does anybody perhaps have this disposition saved somewhere on their hard drive,

please?



In the meantime, I have imported the sound font into my disposition, but I have no idea how

to implement the tremulant. The sound font has 126 presets, in two versions. One is without

a trem, the other is with a trem. All the presets seem to be grouped and are laid out in

this order:

000:000 Trumpet 16

000:001 Tuba 16

|

|

and then

001:000 Trumpet 16 NT

001:001 Tuba 16



I am guessing that this has something to do with the tremulant implementation.?

The only way I can see, is with the messages in the tremulant element. But exactly how, I

cannot figure out.



If I take a look at the Christie disposition, I see these messages for the trem:

Intercept         equal 192, get program,

Engaged          set 192, set program 50 | sub 50,

Disengaged       set 192, set program 0,



What should the proper messages and values be for the correct implementation of Bruce's

c102 soundfont?



Thank you in advance.



Kind regards,

Brian."



Hi all,



Please send Brian any replies using the above Topic name. Brian's post is not pertinent to

"Hammond B3".



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-21 20:54



Hi Brian,



Bruce Miles' website is referenced in the jOrgan InfoBase Index

( https://jorgan.info/base/Index.html ), under "B". Some of its content can be accessed

on the Shared Dispositions page (also in the Index). Unfortunately it may not include all

the information you need.



Starting a new thread on the Mailing list is very simple. If I want to do this, I do what

you did: I look for the most recent post in my Inbox, and I begin to reply to it. BUT then

I make sure I change its Subject line to what I want the new Topic to be.



Best wishes,

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-03-22 18:44



Thank you John. I will search there. Thank you for the tip about starting a new thread.



Kind regards,

Brian.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD

















































Hammond B3



From Bill Skees on 2024-03-15 4:54



Can anyone tell me where to find Paul Stratman’s Hammond B3 disposition?



And what version of jOrgan it requires? And of course where to find that?



I’ve been listening to a lot of Ray Charles lately, and I think a lot of his success

was due to the Hammond.



Best wishes,

Bill

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-03-15 13.30



Hi Bill,



I have what I think you want and it's for jOrgan 3.19.



https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ6lPF0ZNlXdUOxb9yLFrzLVcG5Ja5MIvRAy



Anyone interested, please download now as I will delete this in the coming days

to make space for my own files.



Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-15 14:41



Thanks Mark…

really fun stuff.



Cheers

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD













































Reiterate Question



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-03-18 1:03



Good afternoon all,



I'm still not understanding what to do to get the Repeater Switch to what I want it to do,

perhaps it cannot to what I require. I want to attach it to a Mandolin sound element, and

have it repeat the note in very short intervals, just like my Yamaha keyboard can do, to

make the playing experience more realistic. Years ago I had an example which I could not

figure out, and I've lost that example. If anybody knows how to do this, I would greatly

appreciate it very much if you could explain to my how it's done, with an included example.

The only think I can think of to make it work, is to have some messages in the element, but

even if I am right about it, I have no clue what messages to put in or how to format them.



Thanking you all in advance.



Kind regards,

Brian.



p.s. Replying to any message on the list that falls into my mailbox is the only method that I

can post - I don't know how to do it in any other way. So if my replay is not relevant, please

forgive my ignorance.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-03-18 5:53



Hi Brian…



I have never implemented a reiterate feature personally. However I am aware that

several of the Theater Organ dispositions have such a feature.



I just pulled up the large Robert Morton at:

https://sites.google.com/site/savirtualorgans/jorgan-dispositions



At least two stops on the Solo reiterate. You might have a look.



Cheers

Marc-Paul



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD













































Mailing List Issues



From JohnR on 2024-03-20 09:06



Hi all,



Thank you to those who replied to my Test Post. There is no need for any more. ;-)



I am back with my RPi 4B "desktop". The first thing I did was to unsubscribe from the List

and then resubscribe after a short delay. I am now receiving your posts.



I noticed that I stopped receiving them about the time I had to change over for some time

to my old RPi 3B+ desktop. I could still send posts. This suggests to me that the Mailing

List is sensitive to changes in whatever computer is used to send posts, but unlike Google,

does not send an email querying it. I wouldn't have expected this, but what do I know about

computer systems? However, it could be one reason why some users lose access to the Mailing List.



From time to time I hear from List members who have lost access. My advice is to unsubscribe,

and then resubscribe after a short wait. This seems to solve the problem. However, I recall

two long-standing members of the list who did not renew their subscription, whether from

impatience or frustration, I do not know. (My initial Mailing List experience of trying to

reconnect using the RPi 3B+ could certainly cause frustration; using the RPi 4B was

straightforward). One of these was a VERY significant member of the list, and he is now lost

to us, although he has joined the Facebook Group.



Best wishes,

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Jonathan Aquilina on 2024-03-20 17:34



Good Morning John,



What you are describing isn’t normal for a mailing list.



I know google and yahoo alike have implemented some radical changes to emails and I am

wondering if you were bitten by these changes or potentially even others.



would be interesting to understand this better to be honest.



Regards,

Jonathan Aquilina

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD





















































Bruce Miles' Cinema Organ



From JohnR on 2024-03-21 20:35



On 2024-03-21 18:30, Brian Sweetnam wrote:

"Good morning all,



I am trying to get the Bruce Miles sound font incorporated into my disposition. This is the

note in the sound font:

'Cinema Organ' version c102 (includes stops and combinations) for general use. Install in

Bank 22. See www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk for supporting files.



I think Bruce passed away a couple of years back, and his website is no longer active or

available. Does anybody perhaps have this disposition saved somewhere on their hard drive,

please?



In the meantime, I have imported the sound font into my disposition, but I have no idea how

to implement the tremulant. The sound font has 126 presets, in two versions. One is without

a trem, the other is with a trem. All the presets seem to be grouped and are laid out in

this order:

000:000 Trumpet 16

000:001 Tuba 16

|

|

and then

001:000 Trumpet 16 NT

001:001 Tuba 16



I am guessing that this has something to do with the tremulant implementation.?

The only way I can see, is with the messages in the tremulant element. But exactly how, I

cannot figure out.



If I take a look at the Christie disposition, I see these messages for the trem:

Intercept         equal 192, get program,

Engaged          set 192, set program 50 | sub 50,

Disengaged       set 192, set program 0,



What should the proper messages and values be for the correct implementation of Bruce's

c102 soundfont?



Thank you in advance.



Kind regards,

Brian."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-21 20:54



Hi Brian,



Bruce Miles' website is referenced in the jOrgan InfoBase Index

( https://jorgan.info/base/Index.html ), under "B". Some of its content can be accessed

on the Shared Dispositions page (also in the Index). Unfortunately it may not include all

the information you need.



Starting a new thread on the Mailing list is very simple. If I want to do this, I do what

you did: I look for the most recent post in my Inbox, and I begin to reply to it. BUT then

I make sure I change its Subject line to what I want the new Topic to be.



Best wishes,

John

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-03-22 18:44



Thank you John. I will search there. Thank you for the tip about starting a new thread.



Kind regards,

Brian.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD













































Midi kit supplier in Ireland



From Bob Brown on 2024-03-23 10:54



I've lost the web address for an Irish supplier of midi keyboard encoder kits. I know it was

a .net address, but can't find it on a Google search. Does anyone know of them?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-03-23 11:24



midikits.net

Tom Scarff <scarff.tom@gmail.com>



BUT:

Tom Scarff has retired after working for more than 45 years in the Electronics, Computer and

Music Technology Industries. He has spent many years working in the development and design of

electronic music, building many different types of MIDI musical instruments. He has now

published a number of MIDI and Music Technology books, which are available online and from

Amazon.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Bob Brown on 2024-03-23 19:49



Thanks Mark. That explains why I couldn't find him.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-03-23 22:21



Try midiboutique.com, located in Bulgaria, but very good selection of midi interfaces

for most situations. Had no problems with payment or shipping. I modified a 25-note pedalboard with one of their units about 4 years ago and it performs flawlessly with my jOrgan setup.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Bob Brown on 2024-03-23 22:39



Thanks John, I'll take a look

Bob

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-24 08:55



Hi Bob,



You may also like to consider Midi-Hardware in Poland, the products designed and made

by Roman Sowa. I used his parts when MIDIfying the analogue electronic organ in my local

church several years ago. There has not been the slightest problem.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Bob Brown on 2024-03-25 00:52



Thanks John. I have a week of medical investigations ahead, but hopefully I'll get around

to doing a bit of research next week.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-03-25 01:26



Tom uses USB with his kits, but his book uses MIDI so you may need an adapter from MIDI to USB.

ƒg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD





















































Implementing a sustain pedal



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-03-24 17:33



Good morning all,



I would like to implement a sustain pedal function into my disposition. I've got a midi

midi hardware connected to my computer, all via midi cables:

Technics EN-2 midi organ

Yamaha MU-15 midi sound module

Sanchez 49 note midi controller keyboard, with attached sustain pedal.



I've checked, when I depress and release the sustain pedal on my Sanchez keyboard, it does

transmit midi messages to my computer. I used a little program called "midimon.exe" that

I've been using for years to verify this. But How do I pick this up from within jOrgan?



I've seen that I can create a stop and select a "sustain" function, but I really have no

idea what to do.



I'd like this function for when I play the various piano / e.piano, and other percussive

sound, as well as guitars / basses.



If anybody has some advice, I would really appreciate it very much.



Kind regards,

Brian.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-03-24 20:13



If you have created a Stop that provides Sustain, then I think you are wanting to understand

how to "connect" it to a external MIDI message.

You will need to make a "Reference" connection from (or to, I'm not sure which, but I suspect

it will only let you do it one way) the Stop you have created to the Console "Connector"

Element in your disposition.

You will then need to enter an Activate and Deactivate message under "Messages" for the Stop.

The actual message won't matter, as once there are messages there you will be able to use the

record detect function.



I'm sorry that is the best I can suggest off the top of my head. Hopefully there will be

enough crumbs to steer you in the right direction.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-24 22:08



Hi Brian,



I managed to extract an old thread from the jOrgan-User archive. It appears that success

depends on whether the soundfont supports the effect. Towards the end of the thread, there

is a post where our late friend Panos sent a post where he claims success with jOrgan and

the effect, and indicates what messages he used. It is a long thread, challenging to wade

through. I suggest you go to the end and scroll back up, looking for the post in question.

Here is the link:

https://sourceforge.net/p/jorgan/mailman/jorgan-user/thread/1291206651576-

3067167.post%40n4.nabble.com/#msg26681977



There was a lot of discussion at the time on whether it could be done with jOrgan. Panos' post

suggests that it can be done, but that doesn't mean that it will fall into your lap!



Best wishes,

JohnR



P.S. A better way to find the post is to search for: "OK Guys, I'm back on the net." once you

have accessed the archive thread.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-03-25 00:43



I believe the message for a sustain pedal would be:

set 176, set 64, set 127,

set 176, set 64, set 0



I believe it is, either on or off and that no variable, add or multiply value, is needed.



Anyone who knows for certain, please correct the MPL syntax, if I am wrong



jOrgan does not have an auto-detect feature for attached devices, so the messages have to be

entered manually.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Don Anderson on 2024-03-25 01:37



Yes, it's correct according to what I had working a few years ago.



A Switch Filter with these messages:

Engaged: set 176, set 64, set 127



Disengaged: set 176, set 64, set 0



Then add Activate and Deactivate and record the on and off midi messages from your sustain pedal.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-03-25 01:56



Thank you, John B and Don.



I'll be trying this out tomorrow. It is very exciting. I am looking forward to this working.



Kind regards,

Brian.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-03-25 07:43



"jOrgan does not have an Auto Detect for attached devices"



When an Element is Referanced to (or from) a Connector Element and the Element has Activate

and Deactivate functions added, and then any random address is entered for each, the Auto

Detect function will then work in both Customizer and Construct mode.

It is only when there are no messages entered that the Auto Detect won't work.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-03-25 11:32



On 2024-03-24 22:08, JohnR wrote:

'P.S. A better way to find the post is to search for: "OK Guys, I'm

back on the net." once you have accessed the archive thread.'



Hi Brian,



Sorry. You can't do a search directly. If you have the patience, it is possible to go

to the top of the archive thread, select it all to the end (!!), copy it to a suitable

new document file, and do a search then. It's probably quicker to follow my first

suggestion: go to the end of the thread, and scroll up, looking for those words.

Panos' post is certainly worth finding.



Also, I think that a quote from the thread from "jeanpool" is worth noting:



Resume :



A switch filter referenced by the rank with sustain.



1. For the physical pedal sustain :

Activate equal 176, equal 64, equal 127... (equal 64 or other, if other

pedal !)

Deactivate equal 176, equal 64, equal 0



2. For the soundfont (via the channel automatically selected by the rank) :

Engaged set 176, set 64, set 127

Disengaged set 176, set 64, set 0 [end of quote]



You have been given lots of information. Sorting it all out will surely get you to success.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-03-25 19:16



Hi John R and Rick,



Thank you for the support.



Kind Regards,

Brian.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-04-01 17:08



Hi,



Thank you all for the information so far. I'm still trying to figure it out.



My aim is to provide the sustain pedal function not really to any sound font sounds, but

rather to the sounds emanating from my hardware midi sound module, as well as any other

hardware midi sound module or keyboard that I am connecting to my disposition. I've got

the following hardware devices integrated with success into my mixed disposition:

Yamaha MU-15 sound module, Yamaha PSR-295 keyboard, Korg PA-300 keyboard, and even my

Technics SX-EN1 midi organ. I've also integrated my Ashton Aurora 1000 digital piano into

my disposition. My reason for having such a variety of instruments connected to my

disposition, is the fact that I love multichannel audio. It created a beautiful wall of

sound depending on what I'm playing and which stops I've activated. Also in this

disposition is a modified version of Rick's Christie theatre organ, and Paul's A.C.O pipe

organ. Plus a number of other sound fonts that I really love the sound of. The only thing

I'm really missing here is having physical drawbars to play with.



I'm playing it all from my Technics midi organ, with a simple Sanchez midi controller

keyboard sat on top of my organ, for the Solo manual. My sustain pedal is connected to

the Sanchez midi controller keyboard.



I'm still trying to figure it all out.



Thank you all again for your help so far.



Kind regards,



Brian.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-11 20:58



Hi Brian



This is where I keep the jOgran "Christie" disposition.



http://tcptechnology.com.au/vtpo/



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-04-11 22:15



Brian, I think your choice is to create a continuous controller for sustain and reference ALL

the sustainable elements of the disposition to it. I am not sure if those are keyboard

elements or all the sounds/sound fonts/stops or ranks, that are inputting to your audio card

output.



Let us know how you succeed in doing it.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Brian Sweetnam on 2024-04-12 04:56



Thank you Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Dr. Mark Bugeja MD on 2024-04-12 05:05



Hi.... I connect the sustain pedal directly to the keyboard which I use to play a digital piano.



I must admit I have never tested it with software other than this particular piano application

(if you can call it so). I have had no other reason as yet to use sustain pedals for anything else.



Mark

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD





































































Updates to jOrgan Discovery Website



From JohnR on 2024-04-10 12:06



Hi all,



Recently I made some overdue updates to the jOrgan download and installation details

for the users of Windows, Linux and Raspberry Pi. I would find it helpful if someone

checks the details to see that they conform to what is currently being offered, and

then reports back. To find the section, click on this link ( https://jorgan.info ),

then on the STARTING page icon in the list at the left, and then on "jOrgan" under the

heading "DOWNLOADING AND INSTALLING" in the Index.



The current jOrgan releases can be accessed here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/



(jorgan-installer for Windows; jorgan-package for Linux, jorgan-rpi for Raspberry Pi)



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD

































































expression pedal/ Re: Using an external pedal



From Pascal Collet on 2024-04-22 19:24



Hi,



For my organ course, I need to go further with the jOrgan facilities. I would like to train

with a "volume pedal" that controls the enclosure of a keyboard (swell or choir for example).

There are some foreseen in jorgan disposition (BCA cavaillé coll, J3.20 Walker, Thomaskirche,

...) with such graphical control (volume and/or crescendo). So, I have added an external toe

pedal on the controller that sends midi messages (choose channel 7 for it) when moving its

position with a foot. jOrgan receives them (monitoring of midi messages).

I have try to find a configuration with this type of device and consult the jOrgan info

without finding a way to do this.



Could someone in the user's group help me to implement this ?



Have a nice day and thanks for maintaining this joyful program.



Pascal



PS : using jOrgan 4.0 Beta 1 (64bits) on a windows 10 PC with fluidsynth 2.2.8.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-22 21:37



Hello Pascal



Welcome to jOrgan.



We will need some more explanation of what you are trying to, big picture, full project,

for us to understand what you want to do with this Swell controller.



"Toe Pedal" is a little confusing. It may be a translation aspect.



In English common Organ terms, we have Toe Pistons and Balanced Swell/Crescendo Pedals.



A Swell pedal will usually have a Resistor (Voltage Divider) connected to a MIDI Encoder.

This will usually be assigned to provide CC (Controller Change) MIDI Messages. Often CC-7 or

CC-11, but it really doesn't specifically matter. These CC Messages can be assigned to

whatever MIDI Channel you wish, Often the Channel Number of the Keyboard driving that

Division, but again it doesn't really matter as long as you know what it is and can set the

addressing to match.



The full MIDI Addressing of a Swell pedal will be both its CC Number and Channel.



The Message Monitor in jOrgan can be confusing in how it displays Messages.

It displays a decimal number which is a combination of the message type added to the Channel

Number, 0 based. (0 = Channel 1).

You will find it more useful and easier to interpret if you look at your MIDI Messages in

MidiOx. The message display in MidiOx will show the detail you need to see in the format that

can be entered into the Messages addressing in jOrgan.



In the Dispositions you are looking at, are you trying to use "Customize" to set your Swell

addressing, or are you looking at the Swell "Element" in "Construct" Mode?



Kind regards,

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Pascal Collet on 2024-04-23 22:24



Thanks for your reaction Rick,



Short version : I want to add a physical expression pedal that sends a midi message to the

PC on which jOrgan is already running to control volume of rank(s) of a keyboard

Long version : jOrgan is running on a windows 10 PC. Three keyboards (FATAR) and a pedal

(home made) are connected through an electronic board (GINO-MIDI.nl). This card sends midi

messages to the PC based on keys pressed or released on the keyboard (and pedals).

On this card, I have connected an expression pedal. Depending on its position (driven by my

foot), the card sends midi messages (control change, channel 7, set 113, value between 47 and

127). Based on this, I would like to modify the volume of ranks, for example one of the swell.

It's already possible on some instruments but it is true an expression pedal implemented on

the graphical interface that you move with your mouse.

Next step will be to connect toe pistons on the card and to activate/deactivate coupling of

keyboards, pedals (I+II, P+II).

Hope this is more clear and helpful.



Kind regards, bien cordialement.

Pascal

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-24 11:25



Hi Pascal



I think what you are asking is how to set the MIDI input from your Swell pedal to jOrgan.



To get Keyboards working you would have found the 1st page of "Customizer..." on the File

Drop-Down Menu.

2nd page of the Customizer lets you adjust the size of the jOrgan console display to best

suit your screen.

The 3rd page of the Customizer is where you set MIDI inputs for Console control.

On this page, set your MIDI "Device" that your Swell pedal is connected to. (this is where

you can connect any Pistons, Stops)

Then, click on the "Continuous" Tab. (this is where you set Swell and Crescendo)

You will now see any "Continuous" functions configured in the jOrgan disposition you are using.

Click on the golden key icon to the right of the Swell chamber listed.

It will now be in "record" mode. Move your Swell pedal. It will get the Controller and Channel

information from your physical device.

Click Finish.



Your Swell should now work.



If nothing shows up under this "Continuous" Tab in the jOrgan disposition you are using, then

we will have to go into further detail to get that part setup.



May I suggest you be careful in your use of MIDI Terminologies.

In MIDI, "Channel" has a very important use, with 16 MIDI Channels available per device.

CC (Control Change/Continuous Controller) is a specific MIDI Function with 127 CC Numbers

available.



The full MIDI addressing for your Swell Pedal will be:

Device - MIDI Channel number 1 to 16 (0 to 15) - Controller number 0 to 127 - Data value

0 to 127



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Pascal Collet on 2024-04-25 16:42



Hello,

After crossing the potentiometer wires (low position was high volume and opposite), the

expression pedal now works.

Is it possible to set a threshold for the low volume (when the pedal is at low level, there

is no more sound) ?

I had also implemented some "toggle" switch and toe piston (coupling, add/remove reed).

I will try with instant contact to navigate through combination (not yet clear how).



Many thanks for your kind help.



Pascal (BE)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-04-25 23:43



You would not find an organ with swellbox that would be completely silent when closed.

It may be possible to do that with MPL messages in jOrgan, but what the "set values" of

the messages would be to effectuate total silence is a question for Lynn Walls or Paul

Stratman.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Pascal Collet on 2024-04-26 16:55



maybe not describe what i would like. I wouldn't like silence when the pedal is in

the upper position, by default it is so. There must be a minimum sound level. Where

could I put such a parameter in jOrgan ?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-26 20:31



Hello Pascal



I will sketch out what is needed in jOrgan terminology.

Please come back and ask if any step is too shallow for you to understand.



May I first suggest that you try a different Disposition to the one you are currently using.

Many should already be set up so that when the Swell Pedal is all the way up, the sound is not 0

I would also suggest that a disposition without this feature is either quite old and/or a very

minimal function disposition, and is probably lacking other features.

Looking at various Dispositions and exploring the various features in each is the best way to

learn jOrgan.

Nothing in jOrgan is a closed secret. Any function/feature found in one disposition can be

implemented into any other.



Go into Construct Mode

Ensure you have the Elements view pane visible (if not go to the View Drop-down list and click

Elements to activate)

In the list of Elements (if folders are implemented) look for a Swell folder.

If no folders, look for a Funnel shaped icon with a black circle at its lower left with rising

white bars

(There is one other Funnel shaped icon that has a power switch symbol in the black circle, we

don't want this one)

Ensure you have the Properties view pane visible (if not go to the View Drop-down list...)

Click on the Funnel Element, it will now be highlighted with blue

The Properties Tab (view pane) should now show "Continuous Filter"

Ensure you can see the Messages view pane (if not...)

In the Messages view pane, in the Name column, you should see on the left "Change"

then to the right, MPL column you will see the MIDI addressing that has linked your Swell

pedal to adjust the volume of sound

In my "Christie" Disposition, I then have a Message called "Engaging"

It has MPL of: set 176, set 11, set value | mult 0.8 | add 0.2 | mult volume 127

As I understand it, this line restricts the minimum Swell volume to 20%



Having look at this just now, going back to the Properties of Continuous Filter, I see there

is a "Threshold" and a "Value" Property.

I don't know what they do. Maybe someone else can enlighten us.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-26 20:43______



Hi again Pascal



This is a link to the "Continuous" information in the jOrgan wiki

https://jorgan.info/base/c/Continuous.html#properties



This shows that "Threshold" can ignore MIDI CC Message Jitter by waiting for a Threshold

minimum change before moving.

(It doesn't say anything about the "Value" Property)



This web site is the most up to date about jOrgan

https://jorgan.info/



If you haven't already, I would suggest looking through what is here.

The Dispositions listed here are probably the best featured and supported examples of

jOrgan - Fluidsynth.



Regards

Rick



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD













































Keyboard detection



From Evrim Galliano on 2024-04-24 09:26



I am able to see all of the MIDI devices in the device manager on Windows 10. All of them

are discovered and work properly in both Grand Orgue and Hauptwerk. However, they are not

working in jOrgan 4.0 Beta 1 (64bit).



When opening the Customize disposition window, the device list shows only one MIDI devices

(and it's incorrectly named from the list showing up in the device manager) so that when I

set the appropriate channels for the various keyboards and such, it is not working in the

software.



Rebooting and reopening jOrgan has no effect.



Any thoughts?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-24 10:07



Hello Evrim



Welcome to the jOrgan community.

Thank you for making contact with this mailing list.



There is a very simple fix that has been designed into jOrgan for your exact issue.



With jOrgan open, goto View - Configuration - MIDI

Tick both boxes: Cache Devices and Enumerate Devices

Click Apply, and back out of Configuration.

I think it is probably best to restart jOrgan.



You will now see all MIDI devices in the selection dropdown boxes.

Each identical name device will have a unique #number beside it.



This is a Windows only issue that came if I remember correctly with the change to Windows 8.

This update of Windows introduced a new generic MIDI device driver in Windows and changed

how MIDI devices were displayed.



I believe these should be ticked by default in installation.

I don't know if it is mentioned in any new installation instructions.

I wonder how many new users get stuck at this point and never reach out for help.

(Linux users have no appreciation of this issue)

I remember when I requested these functions be developed, as jOrgan had become useless to me

once I got a new computer.



Regards

Rick



On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 09:27, Evrim Galliano wrote:

I am able to see all of the MIDI devices in the device manager on Windows 10. All of them

are discovered and work properly in both Grand Orgue and Hauptwerk. However, they are not

working in jOrgan 4.0 Beta 1 (64bit).”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Evrim Galliano on 2024-04-24 14:47



Many thanks — that did the trick!



On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:08 PM RickW wrote:

"There is a very simple fix that has been designed into jOrgan for your exact issue ... "

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-24 16:14



Hi Evrim



Thanks for replying back and closing the loop.

I am pleased you can now start your jOrgan journey.



When I said "I believe these should be ticked by default in an installation",I meant that

in my opinion they should, but in the current installation file they are not.

I don't know how this can be changed or who could make such a change.



There are other aspects of the jOrgan Windows installer file that could be updated also.

As it stands, I think it was created for Windows XP.

Quite frankly, it is a miracle anyone gets it working.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Evrim Galliano on 2024-04-25 03:08



Well, like GrandOrgue, I figure jOrgan can have a place as a supplement to Hauptwerk.

I'm on the trial right now and figure I'll probably end up purchasing the full edition

since I'm enjoying the Anneberg-Buchholz Walcker immensely (even on my Bose speakers —

2 tiny desktop monitors and a subwoofer — from 2008 with motherboard audio and ASIO4ALL,

I'm getting an unbelievable sound).



jOrgan interested me due to the JAVA classes I took during my Bachelor and Master degrees

in organ from Oberlin. I'm decidedly rank amateur in JAVA and probably know just enough

to be dangerous but maybe sometime I'll look at the source code for fun. I'm sure that's

a setting that can be changed if one knows where to look — not saying I would.



I will say that many of the sounds within the dispositions I've come across so far are not

the best, to put it kindly. I know some of them are manufactured rather than recorded and

of course the recorded ones sound more realistic. Nevertheless, I'm sure in time others

will step forward to contribute in future.



I know there's a lot of customization and integration that can be done with jOrgan, but I

haven't gotten around yet to figuring it out. I just wanted to get the basics working first

and it looks like that's happened. I can experiment more later.



It's funny you mention about it's a surprise anyone can get it to work. I have come across

some things in Hauptwerk that make me wonder how a $600 piece of software could operate in

that manner. Regardless, there aren't many options out there, so we learn and then gripe

about it and hope someone fixes it in future.



Thanks again,

Evrim (it's pronounce Ay-vreem, as in "May" and "beam," in case you were wondering)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-25 13:04



Please let me re-word some of what I said previously.



jOrgan is only part of what is needed to create a virtual organ.

jOrgan doesn't make any sound.

jOrgan takes MIDI In and manipulates it to MIDI Out that can then be used to activate sound

sources that can be triggered and manipulated with MIDI.



Any discussion of jOrgans "sound" capabilities needs to reference the sound creation software

(or hardware) that is being used.



What is commonly seen as a jOrgan virtual organ, is a combination of jOrgan and Fluidsynth.



Fluidsynth is most commonly used as the sound creation software in publicly circulated

"dispositions" simply because Fluidsynth is packaged with jOrgan in the Windows installer

package.



Fluidsynth loads SF2 "Soundfont" files, that contain the "sample" WAV files being used by any

specific disposition. These samples can be either synthesised or recorded (or a hybrid

combination), with limitations on the size and or quantity of "samples".



jOrgan can be used to trigger other software or hardware packages. This is more difficult to

distribute as a "package" because instructions would need to be provided of what needs to be

set up on the other side, and assuming another person has access to what is being connected to.



No one will claim jOrgan to be the "best" virtual organ, but it certainly is the best MIDI

Organ Relay and user customisable Virtual Organ Screen creator.

When paired with Fluidsynth and selected SF2 files jOrgan can enable a very functional virtual

organ with the smallest demands of computer resources of any virtual organ platform.



This is my take on what jOrgan is, and what it isn't.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-04-25 23:34



Regarding jOrgan sound capabilities, although I use dispositions with fluidsynth, I have

always used Creative Labs, soundfont-capable soundcards. They have, consistently, given

very high quality sound. In addition, although jOrgan no longer has a Creative Sound element,

the Generic sound element can be used with soundfonts loaded by the Soundfont Bank Manager

(SFBM) application which allows hardware synthesizer sound instead of the virtual software

synthesizer.

The difference in quality may be a matter of personal preference.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Evrim Galliano on 2024-04-26 02:26



Thanks for that distinction. It must have alluded me.



So, I could create my own disposition in jOrgan of an organ I like in, say, GrandOrgue

(I'm guessing it might be more difficult with Hauptwerk due to licensing issues) and it

will use those samples from GrandOrgue if set up to do so with less processing than

GrandOrgue would require. Is that right?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-26 06:26



Yes, jOrgan can be the screen console and MIDI Relay for a Custom Organ triggering Grandorgue

or Hauptwerk samples.

Depending on the size of the organ it can be somewhat time consuming, but much more intuitive

and visually manageable in Drag and Drop format than huge HTML ODF (Organ Definition Files).



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Graham Goode on 2024-04-26 16:14



The samples load and play in GrandOrgue or Hauptwerk (or any other MIDI capable sound engine),

but you use jOrgan as a MIDI relay, sending the MIDI signals to GrandOrgue or Hauptwerk (or

both). Using Hauptwerk as a 'Box of ranks' in the manner provides the ability to customize

divisions, couplers, etc.

See https://sites.google.com/site/savirtualorgans/using-hauptwerk-as-a-box-of-ranks



GrahamG



On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 6:27 PM Evrim Galliano wrote:

Thanks for that distinction. It must have alluded me.



So, I could create my own disposition in jOrgan of an organ I like in, say, GrandOrgue

(I'm guessing it might be more difficult with Hauptwerk due to licensing issues) and it

will use those samples from GrandOrgue if set up to do so with less processing than

GrandOrgue would require. Is that right?”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD























































Swell



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-04-24 14:29



I have a question about the swell pedal. Is it volume control or a swell simulator?

I am thinking that it may do either depending on the disposition.



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW 2024-04-24 16:42



Hi Freeman



The Swell function in jOrgan does depend on how the Disposition creater has implemented the

function.



Are you referring to the frequency profile of attenuation when you are asking about a true Swell

simulator?



The detail of this will depend on what sound source is being used with jOrgan and what "it's"

capabilities are.

jOrgan is not capable of creating any sound in and of itself.

jOrgan is a MIDI Manipulation program. MIDI In, MIDI Out.

jOrgan offers a user a WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) Element based Drag and Drop

interface with Organ Relay specific functions (Elements) that can be used to replicate any

organ, or build an organ of your own specification.

The MIDI input is manipulated by the Console User Interface to then provide a MIDI output

that can be used in many ways.

It could be sent to Pipe Rank Driver boards to drive real pipes.

It could be sent to Grandorgue or Hauptwerk to drive digitally sampled organs.

It can also be used to drive various Software Synthesizers like Fluidsynth or Linux Sampler

and others.



What most people see of jOrgan (particularly in the Windows environment) and publicly

distributed Dispositions, is an integration with Fluidsynth open source software Synthesiser.



Having created this context, I don't know if any Disposition developer's have created

frequency profiled attenuation in jOrgan/Fluidsynth Dispositions.

Others may comment on that.



The jOrgan/Fluidsynth Christie Disposition I have created has a calculation on both Swell

Elements to limit the minimum volume (so it can't go to 0), but doesn't have any frequency

profiled attenuation effect.



Regards

Rick.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-04-25 00:01



Rick:



This is what I am asking, does any dispositions consider the response of the swell box:



The swell does not go to zero volume when closed. Low frequencies are affected little.

High frequencies are reduced the most. This will affect the timbre. When completely

closed it is much like a low pass filter. Between open and close it is not a linear

frequency curve as a low pass filter. This will affect the timbre as well. And this does

not consider the resonance of the swell box in what I said, just the general frequency curve.

Resonance will affect the timbre as well.



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-04-25 01:37



A continuous filter that references all the ranks of the division, having the following

messages, will sound from full open, fortissimo to fully closed, pianissimo, not completely

silent, of course.



Name. MPL

Engaging set 176, set value | mult 0.5 | add 0.5 | mult volume 127

Engaging set 176, set 99, set 120

Engaging set 176, set 98, set 8

Engaging set 176, set 6, set value | mult .33 | add 0.66 | mult volume 80

Change equal 176, equal 11, div 127 | get value



This is an Expression (cc#11) midi controller and, unless cc#7 volume has been improved with

respect to the fluidity of incremental changes, is vastly superior in terms of smoothness of

graduated change, these being digital, similar to the difference between a node rheostat and

a variable sweep resistor.



Hope this is useful.

John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-04-25 02:04



John: I do not know the terms you are using but it appears to be a volume to simulate the

swell organ. I would like to know what you are talking about in more detail term wise (MPL

engage set 176, Mult 0.5, add 0.5, mult, set 90, volume 127). Is this a pot taper then

converted?

Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From John Beach on 2024-04-25 03:50



I used the Yamaha FC7 volume pedal successfully with the MPL (midi programming language)

messages that I sent. The pedal will respond to either cc#11 expression or cc#7 volume,

depending on the set 7 or set 11.



I believe it functions more smoothly as expression rather than volume. CC#7 used to cause

an audible clicking sound when volume changes were made, especially, when playback of a .mid

file with a sequencer program. I have not attempted volume control for swell expression.

The swell settings make a gradual cut-off of the treble frequencies as the decrease in

loudness is effectuated by the pedal variable resistor.



I had to reverse polarity to get it to function correctly.



John Beach

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-04-25 08:39



John,



I googled cc#7 and cc#11 and found nothing except cc7 and cc11 which are just volume controls

if that is what you meant. cc11 for all channels (all manuals). This has nothing to do

with how a swell works. Most electric organs volume (expresion) pedals but I have never seen

one that simulated the Swell even though it may say Swell. Some of the better electronic

organs may have this feature but I do not know of any that do.



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-25 13:18



Let's be clear on this.



jOrgan is a MIDI Relay.

MIDI In converted to MIDI Out based on selections made on the screen console.

jOrgan doesn't make any sound.

jOrgan sends MIDI messages to some form of Software or Hardware synthesiser that then create

sounds.

Most commonly with publicly circulated dispositions, the Software Synthesiser being used is

Fluidsynth, with a particular SF2 Soundfont file loaded.



Any capability for jOrgan to produce an authentic Swell chamber replication would rely on the

capabilities of the external sound source being used and its ability to recieve MIDI messages

that could manipulate the sound as desired.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-04-25 13:19



Looking for how key contacts are made I just found this which explains what i am talking about.

https://www.colinpykett.org.uk/swellpedal.htm#Simulation

So I guess that a disposition could include a filter to be used that simulated the swell box

being sampled.

I will read and study this tomorrow.

fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-04-25 13:29



Rick:

I understand this. I believe Dispositions are designed to work with jOrgan, even though it can

work with other systems including pipe organs. I was asking if jOrgan simulated the swell for

the virtual organ, it looks like it does not.



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Marc-Paul on 2024-04-25 14:25



I would direct everyone's attention to this article on the Lars Virtual Pipe Organ site.



https://familjenpalo.se/vpo/swellbox-modeling/



I have used jOrgan for many years as stand alone and to supplement Hauptwerk. I have

multiple versions of jOrgan and multiple versions of Hauptwerk. I would point out that

version 4 of Hauptwerk was distributed as "free" in its basic mode with one instrument.



If you think jOrgan is hard to implement... take a look at the what you have to do to get

multichannel sound out of Hauptwerk. I can do 4 stereo pairs out of jOrgan on a Raspberry

Pi 5 with a Creative SoundBlaster and it is superb.



My "hat is off" to Sven for incredible work!!!



Cheers

Marc-Paul

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-04-25 15:36



Hi Freeman



A jOrgan package (often provided in a folder or zipped folder) contains multiple files.

The .disposition file (can be viewed as html) contains the structure and configuration of

a jOrgan disposition (or jOrgan "organ").

If we assume we are talking about a Disposition that is using Fluidsynth as its sound engine,

there will be an .SF2 (soundfont) file.

There will also be a Skin.ZIP file containing the images used as the screen console.

If the Disposition builder used the facility, there will be a .MEMORY file where multiple

sets of Combinations can be saved.

If the disposition builder (or contributors) have created MIDI files with the built-in MIDI

Recorder/Player, there may also be .MID files.



The Disposition will contain PATH addressing to these files. Hopefully for a shared

Disposition, the Disposition builder has addressed them Relative to the Folder containing

the .disposition file, and not full Path addressed only relevant in their computer.



The "Swell" "Element" in jOrgan enables the addressing of "Continuous" MIDI Input messages,

and enables the Output of "Continuous" MIDI Output messages to whatever Sound Source is

being used.

All "Message" lines in jOrgan are able to contain MPL (MIDI Programing Language) to

manipulate the MIDI values in any way desired by the Disposition builder.



If Swell Chamber varied frequency attenuation were to be achieved, it would need to be a

function of Fluidsynth addressable and controllable by MIDI messages.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-04-25 15:59



On 2024-04-25 00:01, Freeman Gilmore wrote:

"This is what I am asking, does any dispositions consider the response of the swell box:

The swell does not go to zero volume when closed. Low frequencies are affected little.

High frequencies are reduced the most ... "



Freeman,



The answer is a very qualified "Yes". I would say that ALL dispositions created in the past

decade or so do not have the volume going down to zero. As regards the high frequencies being

affected most by "closing the box", some of the dispositions attempt to mimic this. (Mine

don't, but that could be remedied very easily by copying Paul Stratman's approach in his

dispositions. He may even have a section on this in the articles to be found on his website.

It depends on what Messages are set up for the ranks involved.)



I believe that some of the other details you mention could be mimicked, if the creators of the

dispositions feel that the time involved in making use of the sf2 specification and the jOrgan

MPL features to achieve this, is time well spent. But I suspect that they are all busy people.

There is such a thing as "the law of diminishing returns", and I am sure they consider this

when spending time on their creations.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From JohnR on 2024-05-07 19:59



Hi all,

Lynn Walls sent a post to this thread which did not get through because he attached a small graphic

which caused the size to be over the maximum approved by SourceForge, who host our Mailing List.

With Lynn’s agreement, I have transcribed the contents of Lynn’s post, together with the attachment details:



Here are the MPL settings for my expression pedal. Please note that the 'Change'

specification detects the ACTUAL range of the expression pedal's movement. My expression

pedal does not go fully from 0 to 127. Rather its minimum value is about 75. The

calculations in the 'Change' spec adjust for this to remap the 'value' into a range of 0-127.

In a similar way, the 'Engaging' MPL calculation sets the MINIMUM value of the controller 11

range to about 70% of the max value (127), so that a completely closed expression pedal

(controller 17) yields a controller 11 setting of about 89. And a completely open (full)

expression pedal yields a controller 11 setting of about 127.

'mod 10' means something like 'modulo 10' which I believe says: Take the incoming value

(computed at the left), and divide it by 10, and pass the remainder on to the next operation to

the right. (mult, div, add, sub are all obvious)



Engaging: equal 191, equal 17, greaterEqual 75 | sub 75 | div 52 | lessEqual 1 | mult -1 | add 1 |

mult 200 | get z | mod 10 | get r | set z | sub r | div 200 | get value

Change: set 176, set 11, set value | mult -1 | add 1 | mult 0.3 | add 0.7 | get x | mult x |

mult 127 ”

(NOTE: Lynn does not adjust the attenuation for frequency)





Usual “basic” Continuous Filter Message (for no frequency adjustment):

Engaging: set 176, set 11, set value | mult 0.6 | add 0.4 | mult volume 127



Paul Stratman’s Moller Organ Swell Control Messages (adjusts for frequency):

Engaging: set 176, set 11, set value | mult 0.6 | add 0.4 | mult volume 127

Engaging: set 176, set 16, set value | mult 0.9 | add 0.1 | mult volume 100

Change: equal 176, equal 27, greaterEqual 1 | sub 1 | div 126 | get value

In addition, appropriate parameters need to be applied in the soundfont, as indicated in Paul Stratman’s document:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/tb5uea5qk0s4nb4 (Download link for the document). The relevant

section is called, “Swell Muffle”.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-08 13:58



Rick & JohnR:



The outline of the JOrgan package is helpful. I read Paul Stratman's dispositions approach.



I have two sides in regard to the swell but first I have some questions:



I have The Complete MIDI 1.0 manual, but I have no clue what this means: | Engaging | set 176,

set11, set value | mult 0.5 | add 0.5 | mult volume 127 |?



I assume that the Swell, Great, Pedal go through separate channels and for stereo each would go

through two channels. Is this correct?



Can I as an end user of JOrgan send the Swell through two channels instead of one?



I have more questions, but this will determine what I ask next and save us time.



If someone should know, many of the URL's in Paul Stratman's are broken. I did not check Allen

Organ's Patents, they probably work.



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-05-08 16:44



Hi Freeman



jOrgan is in the middle between something providing console activity (either a physical MID console,

or a MIDI recording of console activity) and something external to jOrgan being fed manipulated MIDI

data to trigger sound (either a software synthesiser or hardware sound module or real pipe drivers).



Whenever we look at a "message" in jOrgan we need to consider where it is coming from or going to.

If this message were to have "get", it would be reading incoming MIDI from a console.

This particular message has "set" so it is sending a message out of jOrgan.



To understand this in the greatest detail we would need to know where this message is being sent, and

how what it is being sent to will interpret the MIDI addressing.

Do we assume at this point that the jOrgan Disposition you are working with has a Fluidsynth back end?



There is no use trying to read the MIDI Standard documentation. There is so much in it that is simply

not used in Virtual Organ. We really only need to know MIDI: Note ON/Note OFF (note and stop activity),

Controller Change (swell/volume and crescendo) and Program Change (piston triggers in some systems).

Devices and Channels are important concepts to understand.

(If you are working with Fluidsynth Software Synthesiser there may be some other MIDI messages that can

be sent to it, but I have not needed to go to that depth. In that case there is probably documentation

for Fluidsynth that could go deeper.)



set 176, this is a Decimal number. To understand it in MIDI we need to convert it to HEXidecimal.

B0 in MIDI, HEX "B" are Controller Change messages. "0" (zero) is MIDI Channel 1

This is sending a MIDI Controller Change message on MIDI Channel 1



set 11 this can stay as Decimal if we look up the MIDI Controller Change list we will

find 11 listed as Expression

https://nickfever.com/music/midi-cc-list

At this point we can assume that Fluidsynth knows what to do when it gets a Controller

Change 11 message on Channel 1.



So far we know the MIDI message type (Controller Change) on Channel 1, Controller 11

(Expression), then it will have a MIDI data value of 0 to 127



The rest of that line of message are calculation factors to provide the data value using

"MPL" MIDI Programing Language that to my understanding was developed in jOrgan for jOrgan.

This is changing the data value read from the console input and changing it to provide a

useful range to Fluidsynth.

https://jorgan.info/base/Midi.html This web link to jOrgan wiki has some information about

MPL. I only know enough to have followed some instructions from Lynn Walls who seems to be

about the only person that understands MPL.



Now, as to how these messages actually affect the sound you hear, as I have said that relates

to Fluidsynth, but it goes deeper than that, it relates specifically to the .SF2 Sound Font

File that is loaded into Fluidsynth.

To look in detail at a .SF2 Sound Font File, you need to look at the file using a Sound Font

File Editor.

SynthFont, Viena is a Sound Font Editor I have used in the past. https://www.synthfont.com/index.html

I have heard people talk about Polyphone but I have not used it myself. https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/



You need to understand how "samples" are setup in the Sound Font Editor to know how they will

respond to MIDI messages sent to them from jOrgan.



In my work creating the jOrgan Christie Disposition, I found it useful to use three separate

"instances" of Fluidsynth linked from jOrgan. Each "instance" of Fluidsynth provided me a Stereo

Pair of Audio Channels. I split the ranks up into left and right chambers with each chamber

having its own swell control, but the Audio left and right placement was done using PAN settings

in the .SF2 Sound Font File.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From RickW on 2024-05-08 16:56



Hi again Freeman



You might find this link useful.



http://tcptechnology.com.au/vtpo/docs/Simple_MIDI_for_Virtual_Organ.pdf



I wrote this years ago. It talks about the few MIDI messages we use in Virtual Organ, and

includes a HEXidecimal to DECimal converter I compiled in a format that is useful for MIDI.

It also includes MIDI Note Numbers as used in Virtual Organs.



I welcome any feedback on this. It has been a long time since I last edited it and I am

thinking of expanding it a little.

Let me know if anyone has ideas of what else should be included in this document.



Regards

Rick

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-08 22:18 +18



Rick:

I will start here. It will take some time before I get to the first reply you sent, but I

have looked to see what URL's are about. This should answer most of my questions. I did

read MPL, https://jorgan.info/base/Midi.html . That helped.

Thank you, Fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD













































jOrgan MPL Tutorial



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-12 13:28___



My previous post on this subject contained some errors, the most serious one being in the

explanation of the 4th segment. The word "NOT" was missing and completely changes the result

of the operation. (Admin's note: that post has been deleted).

Please delete my previous email and read the explanation of MPL attached to THIS posting only...



(The text of the CORRECT attachment is reproduced here:)



Analysis of the MPL string below:

Change equal 191, equal 16, greaterEqual 75 | sub 75 | div 52 | lessEqual 1 | mult 200 |

get z | mod 10 | get r | set z | sub r | div 200 | get value



MPL consists of a "chain" of segments delineated by the vertical bar character "|". The above

example MPL consists of 12 such segments. Processing starts with the leftmost segment and

proceeds to the right, segment by segment.

Each segment usually performs a specific operation on the number received from the segment at

the left, and passes the result on to the next segment at the right. [This sentence has been

modified by admin, with the full endorsement of Lynn Walls.]



"Change" means: jOrgan will trigger the change event whenever an incoming MIDI message

satisfies the specifications of the 1st segment, and is DIFFERENT from the previously

received (if any) MIDI message that had also satisfied the constraints of the 1st segment.



1st segment: "equal 191, equal 16, greaterEqual 75" specifies the criteria for how an

incoming MIDI message will trigger the Change event.

"equal 191" corresponds to the first byte of the incoming MIDI message being watched for.

It is the COMMAND and CHANNEL NUMBER byte. The number 191 contains two distinct items

of data: the command code in the left-hand half-byte and the MIDI channel number in the

right-hand half-byte.

It's easier to understand if you convert the decimal number 191 to hexadecimal (hex).

Decimal 191 equals hexadecimal BF. Now the left half-byte is obvious: "B", and the

right half-byte is "F".

"B" is the hex representation of the MIDI command "Continuous Controller" (CC for short)

and "F" is the channel number in hex, which is equivalent to 15 in decimal. So, the

number "191" means: MIDI command for Continuous Controller on MIDI channel 15 (where MIDI

channels are numbered from 0 to 15, NOT 1 to 16).

"equal 16" corresponds to the second byte of the incoming MIDI message. It is referred to

as the MIDI "data1" byte. In the context of the CC command the data1 byte is the

controller number -- in this example: decimal 16 (or hex F).

"greaterEqual 75" specifies how the third ("data2") byte of the MIDI message will be

examined. The data2 byte of a CC MIDI message is a number ranging from 0 to 127 received

in the incoming MIDI message. So, "greaterEqual" means that the data2 VALUE must be

greater than or equal to 75 in order to trigger the Change event.

In summary: the first segment of the example MPL string above specifies that in order for

the Change event to be triggered, the incoming MIDI message command must be from a

Continous Controller on MIDI channel 15, and the controller number must be 16, and the

data2 value from the controller must be 75 or greater. When all this is true, store

the data2 number in the system variable named "value" and pass that number on the next

segment.



2nd segment: "sub 75" means subtract 75 from whatever data2 VALUE was received from CC 16 in

the segment to the left, and pass the remainder on to the next segment to the right.



3rd segment: "div 52" means divide the number received from the segment to the left by 52 and

pass the result on to the next segment.



4th segment: "lessEqual 1" means stop processing the MPL if the number received from the left

is NOT less than or equal to 1. Otherwise pass the number received from the left segment

on to the next segment.



5th segment: "mult 200" means multiply the number received from the segment to the left by 200

and pass the result on to the next segment.



6th segment: "get z" means get the number received from the previous segment and store it in a

variable named "z", and then pass that number on to the next segment.



7th segment: "mod 10" means divide the number received from the previous segment by 10 and pass

the REMAINDER on to the next segment.



8th segment: "get r" means get the number received from the previous seqment and store it in a

variable named "r", and the pass the number on to the next segment.



9th segment: "set z" means retrieve the number from the variable "z" and pass it on to the next

segment.



10th segment: "sub r" means subtract the number stored in the variable "r" from the number

received from the previous segment and pass the result on to the next segment.



11th segment: "div 200" means divide the number received from the previous segment by 200 and

pass the result on to the next segment.



12th segment: "get value" means get the number recieved from the previous segment and store it

in the system variable "value" where it will be treated as the recomputed value received from

the Continuous Controller.



The purpose of this MPL example is to map the incoming MIDI controller 16 data2 value ranging

from 75 to 127 into a resulting range of 0 to 1.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-13 07:17



Lynn:



I thank you for all your hard effort writing this, it appears to be what I want to know.

I believe that I am one of the newbies you are referring to. I still do not know what

this does or how.



There is confusion in different places. When I first saw this code, I asked about it,

I was told it was MPL, 0k what is that. I tried to find out what this was and found this

https://jorgan.info/base/Midi.html



It states:



MPL



jOrgan comes with its own Midi Processing Language (MPL)....



Followed by 7 Modifying commands, 6 Comparing commands and 1 Querying command. Then give

2 examples using pipe symbols and continue with 3 examples using commas.



I understand two of the short examples: set 144, set 60, set 100 and equal 144, equal 60,

equal 100. (My lack of knowledge of MIDI may be a factor here.)



Saying "JOrgan comes with its own Midi Processing Language (MPL)...." was misleading to me

at first because elsewhere it says that JOrgan is written in Java, (which is it?). Also,

though there had to be more to this language to write JOrgan I looked for a manual/tutorial,

or a library on this language and found nothing. The clue here was just processing, MPL

should be Midi Processing Library It must be a library of the listed functions unless

they are functions in Java, in that case this would not be JOrgans own. I would like to see

this library if it exists.



I understand set 144, set 60, set 100, now what. How do I use It and why do I need it?

What does the code do for the expression/swell control in the channel/s (CC7/11) of the

synth, that would be useful to me (Paul Stratman's approach).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



You wrote:



Analysis of the MPL string below:



Change equal 191, equal 16, greaterEqual 75 | sub 75 | div 52 | lessEqual 1 | mult 200 |

get z | mod 10 | get r | set z | sub r | div 200 | get value





MPL consists of a "chain" of segments delineated by the vertical bar character "|".

The above example MPL consists of 12 such segments. Processing starts with the leftmost

segment and proceeds to the right, segment by segment.



Each segment usually performs a specific operation on the number received from the segment at

the left, and passes the result on to the next segment at the right. [This sentence has been

modified by admin, with the full endorsement of Lynn Walls.]



"Change" means: jOrgan will trigger the change event whenever an incoming MIDI message

satisfies the specifications of the 1st segment, and is DIFFERENT from the previously

received (if any) MIDI message

Midi coming from where?



Just tO be clear - is the first segment Change equal 191, equal 16, greaterEqual 75 ?

I ask because "," and "|" mean the same thing in MPL.



that had also satisfied the constraints of the 1st segment.

So, this message always exists but is never sent unless an incoming Midi comes in?



1st segment: "equal 191, equal 16, greaterEqual 75" specifies the criteria for how an

incoming MIDI message will trigger the Change event. .



So, this message always exists

but is never sent unless an incoming Midi comes in? Or is it created from other events.



"equal 191" corresponds to the first byte of the incoming MIDI message being watched for.

It is the COMMAND and CHANNEL NUMBER byte. The number 191 contains two distinct items of

data: the command code in the left-hand half-byte and the MIDI channel number in the right-

hand half-byte.



It's easier to understand if you convert the decimal number 191 to hexadecimal (hex).

Decimal 191 equals hexadecimal BF. Now the left half-byte is obvious: "B", and the right

half-byte is "F". "B" is the hex representation of the MIDI command "Continuous Controller"

(CC for short) and "F" is the channel number in hex, which is equivalent to 15 in decimal.

So, the number "191" means: MIDI command for Continuous Controller on MIDI channel 15 (where

MIDI channels are numbered from 0 to 15, NOT 1 to 16).

I understand equal 191



"equal 16" corresponds to the second byte of the incoming MIDI message. It is referred to as the MIDI

"data1" byte. In the context of the CC command the data1 byte is the controller number --

in this example: decimal 16 or hex F). What is data1 referring to in your example?



"greaterEqual 75" specifies how the third ("data2") byte of the MIDI message will be examined.

The data2 byte of a CC MIDI message is a number ranging from 0 to 127 received in the incoming

MIDI message. What is data2 range of?



So, "greaterEqual" means that the data2 VALUE must be

greater than or equal to 75

in order to trigger the Change event.



The word Change is not one of the MPL functions? So, it is java? equal 191, equal 16,

greaterEquel 75 are 3 MPL functions so could be written equal 191 | equal 16 | greatEquel 75

So, your original example has 14 senments? Which should still work as 14?



In summary: the first segment of the example MPL string above specifies that in order for the

Change event to be triggered, the incoming MIDI message command must be from a Continuous

Controller on MIDI channel 15, and the controller number must be 16, and the data2 value from

the controller must be 75 or greater. When all this is true, store the data2 number in the

system variable named "value" and pass that number on the the next segment.

What in the 3 true functions say to store data in data2 and pass it to the next segment?

I can see passing the data to the next segments but why data? Does the greaterEqual function

auto-update?



I could go on but I will stop here for now.



Thank you, whatever you have time for would be appreciated.



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-14 08:45



Freeman,



To answer your questions:



1. The MIDI is coming from any/all of your MIDI input devices: keyboards, expression pedals, real

stop action devices, MIDI button boxes, etc.



2. "Change" is NOT part of the MPL. It is merely a jOrgan name for a particular MIDI message type/

purpose. It is not part of the MPL data. It is an internal jOrgan property name.



3. "," and "|" do NOT mean the same thing. The "," separates the three components of the first

segment ("equal 191, equal 16, greaterEqual 75"). The "|" separates each "handling" segment in the

MPL chain of operations WITHIN one of the "," delimited entities.



4. This particular Change MPL is intended to "watch" all MIDI incoming messages and trigger some

action in jOrgan whenever a "qualifying" MIDI message is detected from one of your hardware MIDI

devices.



5. The "equal 191" is the first BYTE of the 3-byte MIDI message. It is known as the "Status" byte

(which I failed to mention in my write-up. The "equal 16" is the second byte of the MIDI Message

and is known as "data-1". The rest of the example MPL represents the third and last byte of the MIDI

Message, known as data-2. All the "|"-separated segments are part of data-2 and the operations

performed on it.



6. You are correct: "Change" is NOT part of the MPL. It is just jOrgan's name for that particular

function being defined by the associated MPL.



7. "0-127" is the range of values that may be present in the incoming MIDI message's second (data-1)

and third (data-2) bytes. The first byte (Status) must always have 1 as it's leftmost bit (of 8 bits

to the byte). Both the data-1 and data-2 and any additional bytes in the same MIDI message MUST have

0 as their leftmost bit. This is how anything that processes MIDI input streams knows how long a given

MIDI message is. The binary digit 1 in the leftmost bit indicates the beginning of a MIDI message.

All following bytes in the incoming MIDI data stream are all part of the same MIDI message, up until a

byte with a 1 in the leftmost bit is received. That starts a new MIDI message. Since the leftmost bit

of any 8-bit byte is used for delineating MIDI messages, only 7-bits of the byte remain for MIDI data.

Q.E.D. any number represented in only 7 binary bits may only range between 0 and 127 decimal.



8. The whole purpose of all the operations in the MPL chain is to compute, compare, and/or store the data

coming in from the detected MIDI message so that jOrgan knows what to do with it. In fact, jOrgan is

nothing but a MIDI data analyzer and processor: MIDI data IN --> jOrgan --> MIDI data OUT. That's it!

The fact that "fluidsynth" is built-in or hidden under the covers of jOrgan seems to confuse many people.

"Fluidsynth" is NOT part of jOrgan. It is just another synthesizer developed independently and apart

from jOrgan, which jOrgan happens to know about and knows how to use. In fact, jOrgan actually "plays"

the fluidsynth synthesizer by piping a MIDI data stream to it "under the covers".



CLW

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 10:23



On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 6:46 PM Lynn Walls wrote:



Freeman,



To answer your questions:



1. The MIDI is coming ...



2. "Change" is NOT part of the MPL...



So far I have seen Change, Engaged, Disengaged, Activate.

Are there more of these type functions and where can I find their definitions, that helped?



3. "," and "|" do NOT mean ...



After i read this i went back and read MPL, what you said helped make it clear



4. This particular Change MPL ...



This helped for the above.

5. The "equal 191" is the first BYTE of the 3-byte MIDI message...



I know the parts of this message.

All the "|"-separated segments are part of data-2 and the operations performed on it.



6. You are correct ...



7. "0-127" is the range of values ...



I know this part



8. The whole purpose of ...



I will study what you have written now that you have made it clear to me what it does, i still

may have some questions; but this should get through ok. Knowing what all these changes

affect are another matter.



Thank you for all your help, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Mark Bugeja on 2024-05-16 12:40___



I hope all this MPL information gets included in the jOrgan.info website. This is ultimately

where one will look for it rather than a clumsy search through tonnes of emails.



The author and date when info was originally created (date of the email reply carrying the edited

attachment) would be important for their own sake but useful if, for whatever reason, the original

emails need to be traced back.



Mark



______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD















































Swell shoe



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 10:43



I am thinking about making a wooden swell shoe. I checked Google and Youtube, nothing.

Has anyone done that or know of any instructions?



Thank you, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From JohnR on 2024-05-15 20:27



On 2024-05-15 10:43, Freeman Gilmore wrote:

"I am thinking about making a wooden swell shoe. I checked Google and

Youtube, nothing. Has anyone done that or know of any instructions?"



Freeman,



There is an interesting thread on The Organ Forum where the builder showed great ingenuity in

tackling various challenges, and he met with great success. Look at the bottom (i.e.last) post

on Page 4 of the thread

https://organforum.com/forums/forum/organ-building-repair-restoration/

virtual-organs/791539-my-virtual-organ-project/page4



Then go to Page 5, and also Page 7.



He uses a castor wheel, attached to the wooden swell pedal, to engage with the control rod of a

linear potentiometer (not a rotary one). It seems to work very well for him. The pedal has a

rotary movement, but the wheel is used to convert this to a linear movement.



Best wishes,

JohnR

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________*

END OF THREAD



































































jOrgan Disposition Display Program



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-15 11:24



Freeman and others,



To help you understand the structure of a jOrgan .disposition file, here is a link to a utility

program that provides a report of all the various elements in your own specific disposition file

as a set of flat tables:



http://cwalls.duckdns.org:8192/jorgan_report.html



Of course, one may discover everything about a .disposition by mouse-clicking around through all the

elements and properties using jOrgan's construct mode. But this program gives you all the same

information with much less mouse-clicking.



Give it a try, and post a note here to let me know of any problems you discover in the reports. The

program is a "work in progress", so I do not expect it to be perfect ...yet.



CLW

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 12:21



Program says this site can not be reached. I will try some other time.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-15 12:40



Hmmmmm! It works from here.? Maybe duckdns.org is blocked for customers of certain ISPs.?

Try the following alternate links:



http://cwalls.mynetgear.com:8192/jorgan_report.html

or

http://cwalls.mynetgeat.com:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl



CLW

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 12:43



I tried http://cwalls.duckdns.org/ same will not open

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 12:51



First one I get the window but still the site can not be reached the same as the first one

you sent.

second no window site can not be reached.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 12:59



Tried on foxfire http://cwalls.mynetgear.com:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl it opened and ran

but timed out.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-15 22:19



http://cwalls.duckdns.org:8192/jorgan_report.html works from here (and from Sydney, Australia).

Try it again.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________





From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-15 22:28



That's a bad link. It shows "mynetgear" in the email, but "under the covers" gmail kept my first

misspelling: "mynetgeat".



Here's a complete list of possible routes:

http://cwalls.ddns.net:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://cwalls.duckdns.org:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://cwalls.freeddns.org:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://cwalls.mynetear.com:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://lwalls.synology.me:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://lwalls2.synology.me:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl



Let me (know) which ones work for you and which ones don't. They all work from here so

I can't debug further.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-15 23:17



I will do it, but not now. bad time. I use Brave. That could have something to do with it.

Firefox timed out one yesterday.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-15 23:37



Brave could well be the issue. Several so-called "secure" or "private" browsers will not

go to web sites that use "free" domain names like mine, or web site links that are not

encrypted ( http://... ). I do not pay for any of my domain names: cwalls.duckdns.org,

etc. Nor does my web server require encrypted links (https://... ).

I have not had any problem using Microsoft Edge or Firefox. I can also use Tor, but you

must give a OK to get past its warning about the link address being unencrypted.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-16 08:25



Lynn:



Never fear, dumb donkey here! All work except number 4, it will not open. Tried

all on brave and foxfire. I was putting in the disposition folder figuring that you

would need all of the folder to do this.



Thank you for this, useful and fun, fg

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-16 09:18



Freeman,

#4 was definitely bad. MY FAULT -- another damn misspelling! Where it shows "mynetear"

it should have been "mynetGear".



And PLEASE! If anyone finds any errors or wrong info in the reports, let me know. If you don't

want to clutter the list with chatter about this program, just send an email directly to me at

clwalls.junkARTgeemail.com (disguised by admin)



CLW

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From Freeman Gilmore on 2024-05-17 23:04



John & Lynn:

It may not be clear what to analyze:

Open the disposition Folder, and drag and drop the disposition file to the analyzer

(That was my problem.)



Thank you, fg.

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From Lynn Walls on 2024-05-23 23:48______NEWEST POST



I've added a number of enhancements to the jOrgan Disposition Display program:

1. Ability to display just one element by selecting it from the full list page.



2. Option to hide (not show) the "References".



3. Ability to run TRIAL tests of your MIDI Message MPL chains. Just click on a MPL chain

in any MIDI Messages group



and then enter appropriate initialization values to simulate input from a MIDI message

source, and then click on the compute button. The MPL will be computed and displayed

step-by-step showing computed results along the way of the chain.

4. Option to show MIDI channel numbers in the range of 1-16 (even though the actual MIDI

channels range from 0-15).



5. Ability to drag-and-drop your .disposition file onto the file selection box or "Browse"

for it in your file system.



6. Several format and visual enhancements.



7. Improved stability.



Try it out on your own jOrgan dispositions at:

http://cwalls.ddns.net:8192/jorgan_report.html

or http://cwalls.duckdns.org:8192/jorgan_report.html



or if those links don't work, here's a complete list of possible routes:



http://cwalls.ddns.net:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://cwalls.duckdns.org:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://cwalls.freeddns.org:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://cwalls.mynetear.com:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

http://lwalls.synology.me:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl



http://lwalls2.synology.me:8192/cgi-bin/jorgan_xml.pl

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END OF THREAD